View Full Version : What Original Shutter for Ser. III 12" Dagor?

Jeff Dyck
28-May-2004, 01:10
I recently obtained a pair of 12" f6.8 Goerz Dagor (Ser. III No. 6) cells. They are threaded and look ready to mount to a shutter, but which one!? I would really prefer to find an old shutter that already fits the cells rather than pay the costs to purchase a new shutter and have a machinist fit it. My initial guess when I saw them was that they fit an Ilex #4, but trying them out revealed that they are a little smaller in diameter (~59mm front, ~56mm rear) than the cells of my Ilex #4 mounted 12" Ektar. Any idea what shutter these cells may have originally been mounted in?

John D Gerndt
28-May-2004, 06:19
Jeff, I completely understand you position.

Though I have not been fortunate enough to score a pair of cells yet myself, come the time I will lean on the skills of SK Grimes as I am sure whatever shutter I buy will need to be checked and too, fitting of the glass to the shutter. Those super thin spacers often found in lens assemblies are there to correct variations in manufacture and optimize the lens for your specific use. I have read that the Dagor is especially sensitive to alignment errors.

All this said, I'd bet SK Grimes site might give you the information you need.

I guess they figure there is no harm helping out those who cannot use their services as a good will gesture. To me, this is all the more reason to use their skills if you can.

I have no personal or professional relationship with SK Grimes Company though I can speak to their good customer relations and to the quality of their work.


Bob Fowler
28-May-2004, 06:43
There is a good possibility that the cells were mounted in a Compound. Your best bet though, is to send the cells to SK Grimes to have them fitted into a shutter. There is a lot more than just thread size to consider, such as spacing of the cells and getting the correct distance to the iris.

BTW - All Ilex shutters are not created equal. As pointed out on the SK Grimes website, shutters made for Kodak may have different thread sizes than "standard" Ilex shutters.

Ernest Purdum
28-May-2004, 07:51
Your cells are surprising in having different threads front and rear. The rear cell, at 56mm, is almost a listed size. The #37 Compound had 55.7mm openings. The #4 Ilex threads were, I think, made to an inch standard of 2 5/16" which translates to 58.7mm, though Burke & James listed them at 58.0mm. Either way, this shouldn't be too large for your front cell. I am guessing that you may have made an error in measuring the front cell. The other possibility woould seem to be a non-standard shutter, but this seems less likely.

I sympathize. I have a pair of new 302mm f4.5 Raptar cells which I think would fit in a #5 Alphax, but can't be certain, though I know that earlier production cells did.

Jim Rice
28-May-2004, 09:28

I removed my 16.5" RD Artar cells from their factory No. 4 Universal, and, as Ernest stated, both openings measure 2 5/16".

John Kasaian
28-May-2004, 09:28

There are those far more knowlegable than I when it comes to dagors, but the 12"ers I've seen were mounted in compounds, compur dial sets and rim sets, ilex acmes OR ilex generals. The generals have a terrible reputation and, according to SK Grimes' site, have a different thread from the others. The IMHO, the other shutters are quite usable except for the rim set compurs---and I make this distinction only because I have no personal experience with the rimset compurs. You might want to first determine if your lens is threaded for the general of not. If not, chances are you can find a good used shutter to mount it in. I agree SK Grimes or another reputable shop would be my first choice in order to determine proper spacing, an f-stop scale, cla, etc...especially if all you've got are the cells to work with. This really shouldn't be a very expensive project. On the other hand, if its threaded for the general, I fear you're not going to find a worthy general shutter and you'll need adapters machined to fit a modern copal---which is good, but would probably also be a very expen$ive proposition. Even if you were to go with a packard shutter, you'd still need a barrel and that would entail machinery work. Take careful measurements and compare them to the ones posted on SK Grimes site to find out which size & make vntage shutter should work for you. If you can get by with an old timer, check out ebay, swap meets, and retailers for a suitable shutter. Whatever you find and do, enjoy that dagor!