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John Conway
26-Mar-2013, 15:20
I'm getting so frustrated. I don't know if we will ever see New55 film on the market. My Polaroid holders are collecting a lot of dust. I wish that all the effort and R&D could be directed toward getting the 4X5 material on the market, instead of working with the 8X10 material and delaying the 4X5 completion.

Heroique
26-Mar-2013, 15:34
I know the frustration – but just keep faith in the Resurrection, and stay prepared.

For I tell you when Type 55 returns, it will be like a thief in the night.

Meantime, explore the miracles possible w/ TMax-100 & 400.

adelorenzo
26-Mar-2013, 16:30
I hear ya. There seems to be a lot of passionate people out there, which makes this project is perfect for crowd-funding or micro-investment. Unfortunately they are not willing to go that route. Expecting someone to walk off the street and drop $100K to revive a dead technology with a questionable market is a tall order but I am pretty sure that you could drum up 500 people who would invest $200 apiece. I certainly would.

Brian C. Miller
26-Mar-2013, 16:35
The problem with New55 is that Efke went out of business.


EFKE has gone out of business and that is bad news. The EFKE emulsion was nearly ideal for DTR. The only other emulsion we know of in 4x5 today that works well is from Shanghai. We have tested dozens of other black and white emulsions.

If you read the various blog posts and what the process needs, it turns out that the Efke high silver content films were essential. The tabular grain films like Delta and TMax don't work, and the current low-silver Tri-X and HP-4 and HP-5 don't work. So far, no word on the Shanghai film.

Very likely the reason that they are making progress on 8x10 film is because they have a few boxes of Efke 8x10 left.

Peter Yeti
26-Mar-2013, 18:27
That's an interesing point. But Foma is still around, making wonderfully old-fashioned high silver content cubic silver halide crystal emulsions. Go New55, go!!!

Nicolasllasera
27-Mar-2013, 04:59
I aslo wish New55 was on the market. I also would support a Kickstarter.

John Conway
27-Mar-2013, 15:49
I have the greatest respect for everyone involved in the project. Yes the market will be small, but only in the beginning. Getting it on the shelves and on the front cover of Freestyle will draw people to the new product. If the garden variety digital photographer has an itch to try film, a product that will give him an instant print would be more attractive than conventional film. If I was involved in the project, all unnecessary experimentation with things like 8X10 color and all the other things that have been taking up time and money(again, I mean no disrespect) would stop and everything would go into the 4X5 product to get it on the market. Then after the cash starts coming in and the fascination for the great new film grows, start playing with 8x10 color. I bet they would have to run overtime shifts to keep up with the orders from all the great artists out here that mastered the Polaroid materials , who like myself and many here on the forum, are desperately waiting on the improved alternative.

Morten
27-Mar-2013, 17:07
I I am pretty sure that you could drum up 500 people who would invest $200 apiece. I certainly would.

I'm ready to do the same!

JosephBurke
27-Mar-2013, 18:10
Polly Chandler is testing/using some of the New55. An image or two using the New55 film on her FB page.

John Conway
27-Mar-2013, 19:05
Polly Chandler is testing/using some of the New55. An image or two using the New55 film on her FB page. To be quite honest, I am happy for the few (very few) people that have been given an opportunity to test the new film. But at this point, after checking out the New55 site for over a year, and hearing about "other" people using the film, it's getting old. I want my own box. In fact, I want my own case. I will pay for my own case. I want to use my new 55 film to make portraits and make a profit. And I'm sure that there are many people that feel the way I do. As far as high silver content film,I don't know. Make a deal with a film company and have them make a big batch of film with higher silver content. A film deal must be locked in. The trend we see today with companies dropping this and dropping that,there is always the risk of the film being discontinued.

swhiser
26-Jan-2014, 14:02
I want my own box. In fact, I want my own case. I will pay for my own case. I want to use my new 55 film to make portraits and make a profit. And I'm sure that there are many people that feel the way I do.

Hi John -

We're doing our best to bring New55 FILM to life. It's a complex project and will require a lot of money and a lot of luck. At this point, the choice of film is only one of several challenges.

Let me know if you have any specific questions about status.

-Sam

project CEO
new55project.com

Bill_1856
26-Jan-2014, 14:16
I'd be happy with plain, ordinary old-fashioned Readyloads, preferably Tri-X or HP5. (Loved Type 52, never got the hang of Type 55, and the buckets of SS were a messy PITA.)

ScottPhotoCo
26-Jan-2014, 16:46
Hi John -

We're doing our best to bring New55 FILM to life. It's a complex project and will require a lot of money and a lot of luck. At this point, the choice of film is only one of several challenges.

Let me know if you have any specific questions about status.

-Sam

project CEO
new55project.com

Sam,

Thanks for posting here! If you can get the film(s) out and people here shooting you will have a very vocal and supportive group. We live this stuff and will support a great product.

I am a veteran Creative Director with 20+ years helping brands like Sony, Absolut, Jaguar and many others achieve success. If I can be of assistance please don't hesitate to let me know.

Tim
www.ScottPhoto.com

John Conway
28-Jan-2014, 16:35
Hi John -

We're doing our best to bring New55 FILM to life. It's a complex project and will require a lot of money and a lot of luck. At this point, the choice of film is only one of several challenges.

Let me know if you have any specific questions about status.

-Sam

project CEO
new55project.com
Thank you for the reply Sam . I have a bottle of George Dickel set aside just for the day I have my first box of New55 in my hands . I will break it open to celebrate and calm myself down!

swhiser
8-Feb-2014, 20:03
... I have a bottle of George Dickel set aside just for the day I have my first box of New55 in my hands ...!

John you bring the Dickel, I'll bring the Laphroaig (18!).

-Sam
new55project.com

swhiser
8-Feb-2014, 20:08
Sam,
... If I can be of assistance ...
www.ScottPhoto.com

Thank you, Tim, for your encouragement.

I'll call you. We need everybody.

-Sam
new55project.com

GG12
9-Feb-2014, 16:13
+1 for the simple intermediate step of readiloads. They would sell well, raise money and not be so so complicated to make. Phase 2 could be the much more difficult 55 project…

Ron Bose
19-Feb-2014, 21:47
I'd be happy with Type 54 4x5 readyload ... Down to my last18 :-(

jkruppa
20-Mar-2014, 18:53
FYI: The New55 Kickstarter is going live on Monday.

http://www.polaroidland.net/2014/03/20/here-we-go-new55s-kickstarter-campaign/

Randy Moe
20-Mar-2014, 19:03
Well that is news and I have been telling people for some time to hold on to their holders.

However at $11 a sheet, it is not for me. I think they will have a hard time getting mid 6 figures for presale of an unknown product, but I was wrong once...


FYI: The New55 Kickstarter is going live on Monday.

http://www.polaroidland.net/2014/03/20/here-we-go-new55s-kickstarter-campaign/

Andrew O'Neill
20-Mar-2014, 21:44
I still have a box of T55... So precious! I'll take a look when they go live on Monday. Who knows, I may support it.

jkruppa
23-Mar-2014, 18:08
And the kickstarter is live:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film

Randy Moe
23-Mar-2014, 19:14
I wonder how many Polaroid 545's we all have. I know I have 3 and maybe more.

I doubt their value will go up as there must be millions of them still around.

angusparker
25-Mar-2014, 09:36
The Kickstarter campaign has already raised $45K, so a little bit more than 10% of the way there. Please join in (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film) so we can all use this wonderful tool in the future.

rcmartins
27-Mar-2014, 04:57
I have already made my contribution, but at the current rate of contributions, it's unlikely they will meet their goal. I find that unfortunate as it is a wonderful idea and I would love to use it in my studio sessions, without having to resort to the digital camera for studying light compositions, and being able to show people immediately how they will look. It's expensive, it's true, but I think is worth it.
raul

jp
27-Mar-2014, 06:25
You'll recoup your investment in new55 by the increase in value of your spare 545 holders.

RHITMrB
27-Mar-2014, 12:35
I have already made my contribution, but at the current rate of contributions, it's unlikely they will meet their goal.
raul

How do you figure?

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film/

Randy Moe
27-Mar-2014, 12:44
It will make it. They are right on track. Normal.


How do you figure?

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film/

Corran
27-Mar-2014, 13:00
I guess it's good to see this, but even at the "goal" of $6 a sheet, you can count me out, ever. For slow b&w work I'd rather just shoot T-Max or whatever at less than 1/3 the cost. I do appreciate what some do with the instant films but I don't see it as a good investment at that price.

I'm still a bit stung that Fuji discontinued the 3000B instant film though. I'm worried that I won't be able to get ANY economical b&w instant film for the times that I do like to shoot it. In comparison, the Fuji is like $1.50 a shot.

Shootar401
27-Mar-2014, 13:04
I like the idea, but as I posted on another site. I don't think it will see the light of day as a product. Don't get me wrong I'd love to shoot it, but not at $11 a sheet, or even $5. Make it $1-$2 a sheet and I'll buy it all day.

Nicolasllasera
27-Mar-2014, 13:25
Could someone tell me how much was the original Polaroid 55?

HoodedOne
27-Mar-2014, 13:38
Could someone tell me how much was the original Polaroid 55?

I believe the original Polaroid T55 film, was in the $6 range (per sheet).

Big advantage of the New55 film is that print and negative have the same speed. So you always get a good print and negative. With the Polaroid 55 film you had to choose.

scm
27-Mar-2014, 13:45
All of the Type 55 Polaroid that I used from the Eighties into the late Nineties was right around $60 for a 20 sheet box.

adelorenzo
27-Mar-2014, 14:08
People are still buying expired, questionable Type 55 on eBay for more than $10/sheet. It has recently sold as high as $250/box of 20.

In terms of the Kickstarter I don't think they'll fund. From what I have seen Kickstarter projects don't normally trend in a straight line (http://caffeineforge.com/2012/09/10/mind-the-gap-kickstarter-funding-trends/). The successful ones get a big burst of funding at launch and another one before they close. The middle of the projects tends to be flat. I think they needed to get at least 50% in the first 48 hours to have a chance.

I hope I am wrong. I haven't pledged yet as I'm hoping to be able to go in for one of the larger tiers.

HMG
27-Mar-2014, 14:30
All of the Type 55 Polaroid that I used from the Eighties into the late Nineties was right around $60 for a 20 sheet box.

That's vaguely what I remember (as a very casual user of type 55). Applying the CPI calculator, $60 in 1990 is equivalent to $108 today. So an extrapolated cost of about $5.40 per sheet today.

rcmartins
27-Mar-2014, 15:15
The rate of the last two days was very low, around $150 per day, slightly more, at least during the periods I watched. At that rate it would be impossible to meet the goals. Naturally this things are really impredictable and can pick momentum at any time. Sure hope they will.
raul

How do you figure?

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film/

cabbiinc
27-Mar-2014, 16:21
I haven't pledged yet as I'm hoping to be able to go in for one of the larger tiers.

You can always change your pledge amount up or down, and you don't actually pay the pledge until/unless the goal is met. If it doesn't meet the goal nobody pays in. Just an FYI in case someone's on the fence.

goamules
27-Mar-2014, 17:07
Question: do any Kickstarter projects that require large, expensive manufacturing succeed? It seems like the top projects are for video games - i.e. you just fund programmer's time. If the companies that actually manufacture things like frying pans, those MagicJack things you see on TV, etc. used Kickstarter I'd be surprised. You need a bigger business plan, a bigger dream, than just writing up a "wish list" based on something you cook in your backyard.

benrains
27-Mar-2014, 18:54
For the people who love type 55, I hope the Kickstarter funding is successful. It's a great option to have. But I'm also someone who wouldn't be interested if the price is above the $6-$7/sheet range. If I were making money with it commercially, or if I was a successful fine art photographer and type 55 were important to my creative process it might be alright.

rcmartins
27-Mar-2014, 19:13
Sorry, that was the average contribution. The average increase per day was around $2k.
raul

The rate of the last two days was very low, around $150 per day, slightly more, at least during the periods I watched. At that rate it would be impossible to meet the goals. Naturally this things are really impredictable and can pick momentum at any time. Sure hope they will.
raul

Dave Grenet
27-Mar-2014, 19:42
Sorry, that was the average contribution. The average increase per day was around $2k.
raul

Where does that figure come from? More like $9k/day from here: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film/#chart-daily

rcmartins
27-Mar-2014, 19:48
From me watching two day intervals and doing an approximation. Good to see. Thanks
raul

Where does that figure come from? More like $9k/day from here: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film/#chart-daily

Brian C. Miller
27-Mar-2014, 21:54
Where does that figure come from? More like $9k/day from here: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film/#chart-daily


From me watching two day intervals and doing an approximation. Good to see. Thanks
raul

Dave, if you look at the daily chart link you posted, there was a big initial rush, and then not quite so much enthusiasm. I have backed the project, but my hoped aren't that high for its funding completion.

I'd love to have that film again, and if the pods are good, then it's an improvement (for me) over the Polaroid Type 55. I have a stash of Fuji, but of course that won't last forever.

koh303
28-Mar-2014, 11:39
Question: do any Kickstarter projects that require large, expensive manufacturing succeed? It seems like the top projects are for video games - i.e. you just fund programmer's time. If the companies that actually manufacture things like frying pans, those MagicJack things you see on TV, etc. used Kickstarter I'd be surprised. You need a bigger business plan, a bigger dream, than just writing up a "wish list" based on something you cook in your backyard.

That is a good question. Kickstarter them selves wash their hands clean off this issue, and say its the project creators responsibility. So far i have seen MANY 100K-1M$ projects that were successfully funded more then 2 years ago and have not yet delivered one thing. This is also the case with other "personally" (as opposed to a well established company) projects, where the actual funding goal is found to be far below the actual need to go to production only AFTER the fact. I am not sure this is the case here, and as noted above its hard to say anything about funding trends in KS - though at the end of the day no one has any real liability with KS, its more a trust, social capital kind of thing, which i am happy to be a part of.

Another thing to consider is that timing goals in the real world are often very different then what they are projected to be by the designers, and then the actual manufacturer who all make promises they cant even dream of keeping - so its not all the creators doing.

As you say - you most definitely need more then a wish list, and a very specific game plan to make things happen, especially on a large scale, when things are bigger then a basement can handle.

adelorenzo
28-Mar-2014, 12:48
Question: do any Kickstarter projects that require large, expensive manufacturing succeed?

People focus a lot on the failures but many kickstarter projects that are funded succeed. I have backed 12 projects that got funded, a few were for photo books but most of them were for some kind of manufactured product. There are a couple I haven't been thrilled with the product itself but they all delivered.

In terms of large manufacturing projects, I did a quick scan of all the $1 million+ kickstarters that involved actually making something. What I found was:

9 - Delivered as promised
3 - In production, on time
6 - In production, behind schedule (but still working)
1 - Failed although it appears they may have shipped some of their product, just not all of it.

koh303
28-Mar-2014, 14:07
People focus a lot on the failures but many kickstarter projects that are funded succeed. I have backed 12 projects that got funded, a few were for photo books but most of them were for some kind of manufactured product. There are a couple I haven't been thrilled with the product itself but they all delivered.

In terms of large manufacturing projects, I did a quick scan of all the $1 million+ kickstarters that involved actually making something. What I found was:

9 - Delivered as promised
3 - In production, on time
6 - In production, behind schedule (but still working)
1 - Failed although it appears they may have shipped some of their product, just not all of it.

There is a huge deal of success on KS - and i think its a hugely beneficial platform for a great many things, be it books or products that otherwise would have never come to see the light of day.

On the other hand - those under 1M projects, of which there are more of, seem to have more of a behind schedule track record. That is not to say they will not eventually deliver but that the funding goal may or may not have been realistic, or that the demands vs return for the creator are beyond what was initially expected - to clarify - i do not think this the case with NEW55 (though i have my reservations), and i have high hopes they make it.
Seeing as how it is inching towards 20% of a hefty amount of cash for a product that is not only expensive to use, but has a fairly small market appeal - i think they are doing well. I suspect the major market will be in China and Japan and hopefully those markets will kick in to the KS soon.

scm
28-Mar-2014, 16:56
Update #1 - 17% Funded in 12% of Time (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film/posts/792653)

swhiser
31-Mar-2014, 17:43
The interest in Kickstarter is understandable here. They've published some interesting data on performance there (https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/happy-birthday-kickstarter). About 43% of projects have been successfully funded. Of projects that reach 20% of their goal, over 80% are successful. Of projects that reach 30% of their goal, about 90% are successful.

swhiser
31-Mar-2014, 17:53
Here's another nice article from Kickstarter themselves dealing with the notorious "Trough" which is common to every project ...

"Trends in Pricing and Duration (https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/trends-in-pricing-and-duration)"

benrains
2-Apr-2014, 06:32
The trend graphs are looking sort of grim at the moment-
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film/

If the project doesn't end up reaching its funding goals, I wonder if the New55 team would be willing to at least make available their research thus far. I know they've successfully created some preliminary hand assembled films, if the information were in the public domain (or maybe under some sort of Creative Commons license) then perhaps more determined individuals could make their own instant film? Basically it'd be relegating it to yet another DIY alt-process.

goamules
2-Apr-2014, 07:14
I see there are very few large manufacturing KS projects. That's to be expected.

1. One of my many problems with Kickstarter is the high end projects. Everyone keeps quoting the terms "funded" and "success." What is "success?" It's usually a very low bar - "we made a few." Not that the market went wild, the customers love it, the item changed the world. That is success. Was the Lomo Petzval a success because they actually manufactured it, but it sux and no one wants it now? I'm being a little rash there, but my point is many businesses started and built products funded the old way (banks or venture capitalists) - only to find them not accepted by the market. History is full of failed products, that were manufactured. The Tucker car is one.

I, for one, as an investor, would not measure "success" as "we built them and delivered them, game over." To me, a business is about constant improvement, innovation, and learning from mistakes. Not making one run of something then folding. In normal business, from a blacksmith's works to an iPad, the first ver gets sold, the R&D improves it, does what customers want, and builds ver2. And so on. These flash in the pan KS projects seem to just be for the current "instant gratification" needs. The next month, they're forgotten.

On the New55 project, how much will it change the world if they convince a lot of people to pledge to buy 4 sheets of film, once? They produce it, people receive it with a "so so" response, and it's over. Or - maybe a real company can use the project as a proof of market, and build a REAL company, not a one-time PROJECT.

2. My other problem is the low end projects. The vast majority of starving artists that extort funding before they'll work on their vision. But that's a topic for another day.

Brian C. Miller
2-Apr-2014, 08:36
... perhaps more determined individuals could make their own instant film? Basically it'd be relegating it to yet another DIY alt-process.

They don't make the film or the paper. What they have is a formula for the chemicals, and a scalable process. Perhaps this can be turned into a kit, or perhaps not.


On the New55 project, how much will it change the world if they convince a lot of people to pledge to buy 4 sheets of film, once? They produce it, people receive it with a "so so" response, and it's over. Or - maybe a real company can use the project as a proof of market, and build a REAL company, not a one-time PROJECT.

2. My other problem is the low end projects. The vast majority of starving artists that extort funding before they'll work on their vision. But that's a topic for another day.

How much will it change the world? I have no idea. What I would like to see is if it is a credible replacement for Polaroid Type 55. Actually, I'd like anything that gives me a fast proof. I really hate coming home to find out that I've gone and blown something in the frame. Really, I wouldn't mind a negative RC paper proof, if there was a little device that could safely unload a sheet from a holder and process it in a minute.

(rant) And yeah, that wretched lot that wants their freakin' vacation funded! Can't anybody eat beans and ride the bus anymore? Did cheap living disappear into the fat lap of luxury? If somebody has vision, then they are already following it. Buy the prints, support the artist, yadda yadda yadda. If I can just bicycle around the local alleys and find good images, they can get off their duff and get moving on their own. When I was young I did "urban camping." No, they don't need to stay in a motel and eat at restaurants and fly in helicopters. It's just MFA panhandling, that's all. Film is cheap, and so are shoes. (/rant)

jp
2-Apr-2014, 09:07
Lomo petzval's on ebay all sold for good money; none unsold. I'd not say "no one wants it now" . Business takes many shapes and forms, not all meant to please 3rd party investors or to change the world. I think kickstarter is a valid funding method for a business project rather than the whole business. If it's successful, it's a toehold for growth. Nobody likes banks for VCs these days, so options are good.


I see there are very few large manufacturing KS projects. That's to be expected.

1. One of my many problems with Kickstarter is the high end projects. Everyone keeps quoting the terms "funded" and "success." What is "success?" It's usually a very low bar - "we made a few." Not that the market went wild, the customers love it, the item changed the world. That is success. Was the Lomo Petzval a success because they actually manufactured it, but it sux and no one wants it now? I'm being a little rash there, but my point is many businesses started and built products funded the old way (banks or venture capitalists) - only to find them not accepted by the market. History is full of failed products, that were manufactured. The Tucker car is one.

I, for one, as an investor, would not measure "success" as "we built them and delivered them, game over." To me, a business is about constant improvement, innovation, and learning from mistakes. Not making one run of something then folding. In normal business, from a blacksmith's works to an iPad, the first ver gets sold, the R&D improves it, does what customers want, and builds ver2. And so on. These flash in the pan KS projects seem to just be for the current "instant gratification" needs. The next month, they're forgotten.

On the New55 project, how much will it change the world if they convince a lot of people to pledge to buy 4 sheets of film, once? They produce it, people receive it with a "so so" response, and it's over. Or - maybe a real company can use the project as a proof of market, and build a REAL company, not a one-time PROJECT.

2. My other problem is the low end projects. The vast majority of starving artists that extort funding before they'll work on their vision. But that's a topic for another day.

koh303
2-Apr-2014, 09:22
These flash in the pan KS projects seem to just be for the current "instant gratification" needs. The next month, they're forgotten.
There is nothing wrong with immediate gratification, and even if there is - this is the world today, good or bad.

the New55 is a "real" company, probably more real then kodak, and their goal is not to create a one time project, but a sustainable business model that will sell the films commercially.

DrTang
2-Apr-2014, 09:41
Make it $1-$2 a sheet and I'll buy it all day.


2 bucks a shot

I'd be in for 2 bucks a shot

6 bucks? not unless it's 8x10

Brian C. Miller
2-Apr-2014, 11:04
2 bucks a shot

You want it for less than what Polaroid was charging? Or at basically the same price as sheet film? Acros and TMY are higher than that.

Here's the per sheet prices for 4x5 b&w at B&H:
Ilford HP5, 25 sheets = $1.32/sheet
Ilford FP4, 25 sheets = $1.32/sheet
Ilford Delta 100, 25 sheets = $1.40/sheet
Fomapan Classic 100, 50 sheets = $1.10/sheet
Fujifilm Neopan Acros 100, 20 sheets = $2.83/sheet
Kodak TXP, 50 sheets = $1.70/sheet
Kodak TMX, 50 sheets = $1.72/sheet
Kodak TMY, 50 sheets = $2.20/sheet
Ilford HP5, 100 sheets = $1.23/sheet
Ilford FP4, 100 sheets = $1.25/sheet
Ilford Delta 100, 100 sheets = $1.30/sheet

Face up to it: you'll never use it. If Polaroid miraculously came back to life in a grand poof of fairy dust, you wouldn't be buying real Type 55, either. That's exactly why they went out of business! There weren't enough customers to sustain the business. End of story.

DennisD
2-Apr-2014, 20:30
The interest in Kickstarter is understandable here. They've published some interesting data on performance there (https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/happy-birthday-kickstarter). About 43% of projects have been successfully funded. Of projects that reach 20% of their goal, over 80% are successful. Of projects that reach 30% of their goal, about 90% are successful.

With all due respect, it should be noted that the Kickstarter article quoted above was dated -April 2011 when Kickstarter was 2 years old. Here we are 3 years later, with Kickstarter 5 years old. It would be interesting to know where the figures / performance statistics are today.

I am not inferring that the stats today are better or worse, nor would they necessarily indicate + or - directly relating to the New55 project - just a point of information and perhaps a reminder that such statistics should not be taken too seriously.

I loved the original 55 P/N and I'm an ardent supporter of the new55. I hope the project funds better than could ever be expected. My concern is what happens after the project succeeds, delivers and closes. We'll all have some new55 to play with, but the project does not seem to fund or set up a permanent or ongoing manufacturing structure. That would, no doubt, require many millions.

If there's enough interest and support during this phase, will investors step forward to fund a business to produce new55 ? Given what's happening to film in general, the necessary pricing of the new55 product and the power behind digital imaging, the odds seem well stacked against investors venturing into the film industry.

I'm trying not to be a pessimist and continue to hope for and dream about the return of 55 film.

OTOH, I'm just reflecting the reality of what I see --- considering what we already know and are experiencing now.

bjdejong
2-Apr-2014, 22:44
In all cases, I would love to work with New55 Film and I am happy to invest in some boxes of film @ 6$ a sheet. I back this initiative and hope it succeeds.
Barend Jan

jkruppa
3-Apr-2014, 07:29
You want it for less than what Polaroid was charging? Or at basically the same price as sheet film? Acros and TMY are higher than that.

Here's the per sheet prices for 4x5 b&w at B&H:
Ilford HP5, 25 sheets = $1.32/sheet
Ilford FP4, 25 sheets = $1.32/sheet
Ilford Delta 100, 25 sheets = $1.40/sheet
Fomapan Classic 100, 50 sheets = $1.10/sheet
Fujifilm Neopan Acros 100, 20 sheets = $2.83/sheet
Kodak TXP, 50 sheets = $1.70/sheet
Kodak TMX, 50 sheets = $1.72/sheet
Kodak TMY, 50 sheets = $2.20/sheet
Ilford HP5, 100 sheets = $1.23/sheet
Ilford FP4, 100 sheets = $1.25/sheet
Ilford Delta 100, 100 sheets = $1.30/sheet

Face up to it: you'll never use it. If Polaroid miraculously came back to life in a grand poof of fairy dust, you wouldn't be buying real Type 55, either. That's exactly why they went out of business! There weren't enough customers to sustain the business. End of story.

I've been buying Polaroid 51 off ebay for $100 a box for a massive project I've started to document the musicians of New Orleans through studio portraits, for which I'm also using Tri-X 4x5 and Tmax 400 120 film. I realize I'm a crazy person, but I'll use the New55 if it comes to market because I want a positive as well as a negative. As most of you probably know, you have to overexpose the 51 to get a good negative, and the positive is far too contrasty to be of any use.

photonsoup
3-Apr-2014, 09:02
. What I would like to see is if it is a credible replacement for Polaroid Type 55. Actually, I'd like anything that gives me a fast proof. I really hate coming home to find out that I've gone and blown something in the frame. Really, I wouldn't mind a negative RC paper proof, if there was a little device that could safely unload a sheet from a holder and process it in a minute.


For proofing its pretty easy to pull the films out of some Fuji Instax wide packets and load them in polaroid 545 (in the dark of course). It doesn't cover the entire 4x5 of course but you can get a good idea of composition and shadows. You could reload the 545 in a changing bag or tent. If you have any old Readyloads or Quickloads you could reuse the envelope and clip to make up several to take on location.

I've been following New55 for about a year and a half. I would really love to see it take off, but am not overly hopeful. So about the first of the the year I went through all of Bob's posts on the blog, and tried to roll my own.
I have a pretty good negative with a two minute develop time in a tear apart envelope. The positive however still need some work. Bob has been very gracious and almost immediately answered an email with some suggestions (that I have been to busy to try yet).
I will keep trying as time allows, but would really rather that they succeed. They amount of time it takes me to make up a packet, makes $6.00 a sheet a real bargain!

DrTang
3-Apr-2014, 09:55
Face up to it: you'll never use it.


I used to use it a lot - not as an end product, but for checking exposure, etc

the only reason I stopped was I stopped shooting 4x5.. but I kept right on with the pack film for my RB or hassy (yes..I know that wasn't p/n)

but I really don't care if it's PN or not.. the N was just a bonus for me

but 6 bucks to test exposure? meh

Brian C. Miller
3-Apr-2014, 10:22
but 6 bucks to test exposure? meh

I looked at the Kickstarter page, and I have no idea where the $6 figure originates.

$75 pledge = 1 box, containing 5 sheets, 75 / 5 = $15 per sheet. (Add another $50 for a t-shirt.)

So $2, basically the same price as sheet film, is nuts. Lab development (locally, 4x5 b&w) is $2.75. Plus getting there and picking it back up.

That's why I think that if there was a little gizmo to do a fast field development test without mucking about with a dark bag, that would be great. Maybe it could be CatLabs' next project.

Corran
3-Apr-2014, 10:48
It's right on the bottom of the Kickstarter, in the FAQ.



Assuming this campaign is successful, will the cost per sheet reduce once you are set up to sell independently?

The money pledged from Backers in this Kickstarter campaign is going primarily to manufacturing capacity. After a successful campaign, our goal would be to get the market price of New55 FILM down as far as component costs permit. Our goal is as low as $6 per sheet. (Scale economies can potentially improve things from there.)

koh303
3-Apr-2014, 12:53
I looked at the Kickstarter page, and I have no idea where the $6 figure originates.

$75 pledge = 1 box, containing 5 sheets, 75 / 5 = $15 per sheet. (Add another $50 for a t-shirt.)

So $2, basically the same price as sheet film, is nuts. Lab development (locally, 4x5 b&w) is $2.75. Plus getting there and picking it back up.

That's why I think that if there was a little gizmo to do a fast field development test without mucking about with a dark bag, that would be great. Maybe it could be CatLabs' next project.

Wait, whaaat?
Oh you mean like the daylight tank but for 4X5?

Brian C. Miller
3-Apr-2014, 14:46
Wait, whaaat?
Oh you mean like the daylight tank but for 4X5?

A daylight tank that I don't need a darkbag to transfer the film into it, and for just one sheet which will be examined and then tossed. So it doesn't matter if the film is scratched, just that it's developed and given a stop bath.

I'm guessing something rectangular, at least twice as long as a filmholder, holding the filmholder like a pinhole camera. Pull the darkslide up a little, and then a lever manipulates the flap open, and another lever pries the film out. The film falls down below into a cavity. A tube, affixed to a spout on the bottom, is used for filling and dumping the chemicals. With the tube up, it's in the fill position. With the tube down, it acts as the drain. Fill, swish, drain, fill, swish, drain, done. Remove holder, grab the negative. Major screwups, that would be evident with a Polaroid, would be evident with the negative.

To make a prototype for myself, I would start with an Ilford pinhole camera. It's made of plastic, so chemicals wouldn't hurt it, and I can go mad with my Dremel setup. I would modify a film holder so it's really easy to get the film out by just sliding it down. A box of plastic would cover the pinhole camera body and be the tank. I would have two levers or plungers (something!) to open the flap and get the film out.

Fortunately for me, I have enough Fujifilm 100C45 for a while, so I won't tear into my pinhole camera. For now... (mad scientist smiley here)

koh303
3-Apr-2014, 14:58
Thats a grand idea, but i suspect the market for such a product is by far smaller at best then worst case scenario of new55.... :)