Copal shutting the doors?

[Kirk Gittings]

has anyone heard about this? there is a rumor going around from "reliable sources" on other sites that they are going to cease production in a couple of months. It might make a difference to some people in terms of their shutter replacement plans. It might affect some of my replacement plans.

[IanG]

It's not new news, Rodenstock have their own new shutter (electronic) release many months ago.

Ian

[timparkin]

has anyone heard about this? there is a rumor going around from "reliable sources" on other sites that they are going to cease production in a couple of months. It might make a difference to some people in terms of their shutter replacement plans. It might affect some of my replacement plans.

True but I spoke to Rodenstock and Prontor are still making shutters but they're more expensive. Rodenstock have supposedly bought a *lot* of stock so no problem for a while..

[Bob Salomon]

This was announced last year. Rodenstock has purchased shuuters to serve their needs for the coming productions. But they, Schneider and DHW are all making electronic shutters now. However none make an electronic 3 size. Rodenstock's shutter is 0 size only. I believe that Schneider's is also. DHW's is a 1 size shutter and is sold as a 1 or as a 01 which is the 1 with a reducing thread.
All require an acccessory controller to operate the shutter. The Rodenstock can be operated via an iPhone, iPod touch or an iPad. If you check the back postings you will find my press release about the Rodenstock.

[Bob Salomon]

True but I spoke to Rodenstock and Prontor are still making shutters but they're more expensive. Rodenstock have supposedly bought a *lot* of stock so no problem for a while..

Prontor Werke discontinued the production of large format shutters; Compur, Prontor, Prontor Professional, a couple of decades ago. They still make some Prontor Magnetic shutters for OEM applications but whoever buys them must make a controller for the shutter. That is not a DYI project for the vast majority of shooters.

[paulr]

No one has plans for a #3 shutter?

Glad I didn't sell my LF glass.

[Nathan Potter]

Holy smackeroos! I wonder how expensive a #0, #1 and #2 electronic shutter is.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[vinny]

This was announced last year. Rodenstock has purchased shuuters to serve their needs for the coming productions. But they, Schneider and DHW are all making electronic shutters now. However none make an electronic 3 size. Rodenstock's shutter is 0 size only. I believe that Schneider's is also. DHW's is a 1 size shutter and is sold as a 1 or as a 01 which is the 1 with a reducing thread.
All require an acccessory controller to operate the shutter. The Rodenstock can be operated via an iPhone, iPod touch or an iPad. If you check the back postings you will find my press release about the Rodenstock.

$2700 for the shutter
$2300 for the control box
Lenses that come with the eshutter =$5,000+
Minimum operating temp of 32 degrees.
Frickin sweetness!

[C. D. Keth]

$2700 for the shutter
$2300 for the control box
Lenses that come with the eshutter =$5,000+
Minimum operating temp of 32 degrees.
Frickin sweetness!

No good pictures were ever made below freezing anyway.

[genotypewriter]

No good pictures were ever made below freezing anyway.

No good pictures were made with a digital camera before digital was invented either :)

[John Kasaian]

This isn't too big of a big surprise to anyone, is it really?
Take care of your shutter and deal with a great Tech like Carol at Flutots.
Seriously, some youngsters need to consider apprenticing to learn how to repair shutters as customers are going to be stacking up like 737s at ORD.
The lowly Packard is still with us, and thats good news!:cool:

[Chuck Pere]

This may increase hat sales.

[BrianShaw]

This may increase hat sales.

... and the growing of beards, too.

[Shootar401]

Wow! I hope Graflex doesn't go out of business and stop producing the Pacemaker Speed Graphic, you'll NEVER find another one if they do :(

[John NYC]

The good thing is as film continues to fall out of favor (and the current for several years now retro film interest wanes, as it is sure to do), there will be fewer people looking for used shutters so the situation will probably remain OK for those who stay in the game, I would think.

[IanG]

The good thing is as film continues to fall out of favor (and the current for several years now retro film interest wanes, as it is sure to do), there will be fewer people looking for used shutters so the situation will probably remain OK for those who stay in the game, I would think.

Only problem there is film sales (excluding Cine) are on the rise and have been for a while.

Ian

[Peter Yeti]

Only problem there is film sales (excluding Cine) are on the rise and have been for a while.

Ian

I don't think that's a problem, I think it's great. However, I'm not so sure that this rise in film sales is due to LF. We have to face the fact that sometime soon the production of LF lenses and shutters will be stopped completely because there is no sufficient market. We all will be forced to buy on the second hand market.:(

[John NYC]

Only problem there is film sales (excluding Cine) are on the rise and have been for a while.

Ian

Fuji is about to raise prices again, and they are reportedly doing it because of declining demand for film coupled with increased production costs.

I doubt more people are getting into LF than getting out. If that were the case, we would not bee seeing 210mm lenses in perfect condition going for $200.

[Peter Yeti]

Yep, I guess you are right. In LF photography, the ratio of professionals to amateurs is particularly large and the pros are forced out of LF by their customers. Amateurs might be much less inclined to spend a lot of money on new lenses and reliable shutters. So, even if they would make up for the pros leaving the field, this would not help the manufacturers very much.

[Nathan Potter]

Hmmm. Maybe it's time to stockpile a few spare shutters. At least they don't have to be frozen like film. :)

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Sal Santamaura]

Hmmm. Maybe it's time to stockpile a few spare shutters...I've always purchased photography equipment new, except when looking for a specific unique item that had already been discontinued. Into the latter category fell a few lenses. Carol Flutot performed her CLAC magic on some of them but, for a couple of others, I decided to buy brand new Copal shutters, transferring the cells and scales. The last time I did that was two years ago.

Since then, prices have skyrocketed. If you're going to stockpile, consider used, because this is what new ones cost now:


Copal 0: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/147327-REG/Copal_CO_0_0_Shutter.html



Copal 1: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/147399-REG/Copal_CO_1_1_Shutter.html


and (be sure you're sitting down)


Copal 3: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/71069-REG/Copal_CO_3_567_3_Shutter_3_567.html!

[EdSawyer]

Aren't we all doing that already? I have been for as long as I can remember. LF gear new has always been crazy high prices.



. We all will be forced to buy on the second hand market.:(

[Sal Santamaura]

...We all will be forced to buy on the second hand market.:(


Aren't we all doing that already?...LF gear new has always been crazy high prices.No, we haven't all been doing that. As I posted right above you:


I've always purchased photography equipment new, except when looking for a specific unique item that had already been discontinued...Until film stopped being the dominant medium, large format equipment was reasonably priced for the professional tool it was. Always buying used meant manufacturers would leave the market. That's why I've long encouraged anyone who could afford it to buy new.

[John NYC]

Yep, I guess you are right. In LF photography, the ratio of professionals to amateurs is particularly large and the pros are forced out of LF by their customers. Amateurs might be much less inclined to spend a lot of money on new lenses and reliable shutters. So, even if they would make up for the pros leaving the field, this would not help the manufacturers very much.

The amateurs will get the you know what out of dodge once it becomes expensive as 8x10 chromes. There were about 10 of us as of last year on this forum doing 8x10 chromes by my count.

[John Kasaian]

Nearly all my shutters are older than I am and, alas, function much better than I do:rolleyes:

[Peter Yeti]

Well, some of my roughly 90 years old compurs run more accurately than some copals I have from the 90s. But at some point even the most rugged highest quality shutter will break. So, the end of mechanical shutter production is certainly not anything to be happy or even careless about. The next thing happening might be that you won't find service technicians anymore. Start learning how to fix and service your shutters yourself!

[IanG]

I agree with you Peter, I have many old Compurs that run accurately and smoothly, the oldest from 1913. I don't think Copals are as reliable either but it is worrying that no-ones going to be making mechanical shutters.

Ian

[Bob Salomon]

$2700 for the shutter
$2300 for the control box
Lenses that come with the eshutter =$5,000+
Minimum operating temp of 32 degrees.
Frickin sweetness!

1: Those are old prices.
2: The minimum operating temperature is a function of the battery. If you use a battery extension pack so you can put the battery in your pocket (DHW) makes one for their shutter you would have to rig one up for the other shutters you can go much lower. We have sold some of these shutters for operation under the wing of some military jets and they have operated at temps. as low as -50C. As with a mechanical shutter, lubricants will have to be changed to meet these conditions.

Currently we have a Rodenstock shutter going up to the arctic in a pod hanging on the wing of a military cargo jet and there have been no low weather issues.

Bear in mind, the battery is not in these shutters. The battery is in the controller. The controller easily can be put in your pocket or in a heated bag, for that matter.

Lastly, lenses in eShutter start well below $5,000.00. They also go up well beyond $5,000.00. So without specifying the lens this statement is meaningless. A 23mm HR Digaron-S in Copal 0 or a 32mm HR Digaron-W are more then $7,000.00 in Copal 0 shutter!

[alan-salsman]

I was just on the phone with Schneider USA West Coast ,talking about a shutter repair they had completed And I asked them about copal shutters.Last year Schneider was told to prepare an order for the last run of copal shutters before the company closed its doors.Than I asked where Schneider was going to get shutters from and was told that Schneider is no longer making large format lenses except for digital which use electronic shutters .All very sad mews but since it came from the horses mouth or facilely there of I thought I would pass it on.

[BrianShaw]

Interesting. Slightly sad, but not surprising.

On a total aside... aren't the folks at Schneider West nice to talk to. Almost as nice as talking to Bob S. :)

[alan-salsman]

Schneider west is the ultimate repair shop at least for their own products.I sent them a shutter that others said could not be repaired.After several months of searching the world for the remaining repair parts they returned the lens and shutter in like new condition other then blemishes on the finish.plus they are courteous and have in-depth knowledge of Schneider products that few can compete with.

[Drew Wiley]

At this point in time it's probably less expensive just to buy up some used LF lenses and toss the glass (or set it aside)
than to purchase a shutter outright. There's a glut of cheap lenses on the market, esp big clunker plastmats in no.3 that
aren't much in demand with the field crowd. Seems even a naked used shutter sells for more than a complete lens in comparable shutter. Going forward in new lens mfg with mechanical shutters will certainly be daunting once the supply runs dry. But since LF lenses can last a long, long time, it's hard to imagine things ever grinding to a halt functionally.

[paulr]

2: The minimum operating temperature is a function of the battery. If you use a battery extension pack so you can put the battery in your pocket (DHW) makes one for their shutter you would have to rig one up for the other shutters you can go much lower. We have sold some of these shutters for operation under the wing of some military jets and they have operated at temps. as low as -50C. As with a mechanical shutter, lubricants will have to be changed to meet these conditions.

What battery technology are they using? There are some types of Lithium Ion batteries that do well at -40. Most lithium metal batteries do fine at these temps.

I don't do much photography below zero F, but in any cold weather it's nice to subtract batteries from the list of things to babysit.

[paulr]

Is Copal actually closing its doors, or are they just discontinuing LF shutters? Their site shows a pretty big range of products, mostly electronic.

If they're sticking around, there's a possibility of parts from them, at least for a while.

[alan-salsman]

I was told that they were closing their doors,whether that was the whole company or just copal shutters I did not think to ask.Hopefully there will be am ample supply of parts left in some ones hands.I cannot imagine that not being the case after such a long running and successful product.

[Oren Grad]

Is Copal actually closing its doors, or are they just discontinuing LF shutters? Their site shows a pretty big range of products, mostly electronic.

If they're sticking around, there's a possibility of parts from them, at least for a while.

I don't think Nidec Copal is going anywhere any time soon:

Nidec Copal income statements (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/financials.asp?ticker=6883:JP)

It'll be nice if they continue to offer spares, but in the end I don't think it will matter that much, particularly if they raise the price on parts as radically as they have done on complete shutters. There are now far more LF lenses in Copal shutters floating around than there are people using them. If you can stand to orphan some optical cells, there should be shutters available for a good while.