More 4x5 novice questions :-)

[Calamity Jane]

Well, I tried out my home-made 4x5 this weekend and it works A1 !! 4x5 negatives are sure impressive - too bad all my Dektol was 7 years old ;-)

Having now dipped me wick in the LF oil, I have some more novice questions:

#1 - What do you use to hold your negatives for drying? I left mine in the combi rack and they took forever to dry but there isn't much border to clip on to.

#2 - What do you use to transport your LF camera, tripod, and "field supplies" on short trips? Somehow it doesn't seem right to carry film holders around in the daylight - was thinking of buying a super store shoulder bag to carry film holders, exposure meter, and small stuff. Don't know what to use for the camera except to put the tripod over my shoulder and motor....

#3 - On two out of six negatives (in 3 film holders), I had a lighter stripe along one long edge and up one end, about 1/4" wide that looks like light leakage - it was remarkedly uniform for leakage..... I have only shot 1 negative from each position so I don't know if the problem is the holder(s). What else could it be?

I'm really happy with my cherry wood camera and look forward to exposing more film!

[tim o'brien]

#1 - What do you use to hold your negatives for drying? I left mine in the combi rack and they took forever to dry but there isn't much border to clip on to.

Top corner, clip it with plastic clothespins over a string hung in the bathroom.

#2 - What do you use to transport your LF camera, tripod, and "field supplies" on short trips? Somehow it doesn't seem right to carry film holders around in the daylight - was thinking of buying a super store shoulder bag to carry film holders, exposure meter, and small stuff. Don't know what to use for the camera except to put the tripod over my shoulder and motor....

A Volkswagon Van. And a regular type backpack, the kind you get for books in College. The tripod just gets carried over the shoulder.

#3 - On two out of six negatives (in 3 film holders), I had a lighter stripe along one long edge and up one end, about 1/4" wide that looks like light leakage - it was remarkedly uniform for leakage..... I have only shot 1 negative from each position so I don't know if the problem is the holder(s). What else could it be?

Sloppy placement of the negative holder in the camera. It happens. As you get more use to the deliberate nature of your work, it will happen less. Keep track of the number and side of all your film to film holder so you can track this kind of issue. Are you using standard plastic film holders?

tim in san jose

[Graeme Hird]

I keep my film holders in lunch boxes bought at K-mart. $7 for a padded, insulated "soft" box that holds 7 holders.

[Tim Curry]

I must respectfully disagree with tim in san jose on one of his answers (#2). The correct manner of transporting 4x5 cameras and equipment is on a burro with a mild disposition.

A back pack is also permissible on a bicycle, but never a motor vehicle as it ruins the atmosphere, causes global warming and drives up the cost of crude oil.

[Doug_3727]

Jane I have to disagree with Tim on answer #1.......I avoid plastic of any kind. ...Use good old fashioned wood clothes pins. Just barely clip them over the edge of the negative. Wood holds much better than plastic by the way. ...

#2....back packs made to order...Walmart is the place to go.......

#3 hmmm....I have to agree with Tim on that one....You will get the feel for when the holder is seated right after a while.

You are off to a great start and we certainly admire you drive.

Good shooting...

[Jim Galli]

Hi Calam. Congrats!! You're getting terrific advice so far and I will only add an idea about the light leakage. Rack out your bellows, put a film holder in the back, go outside in the brilliant sun, and screw your eyeball in there where the lens is now. Now move stuff around. Tilts swings jiggle the holders up and down, curse, and generally try to see a band of light leaking in. If it is, you'll see it easily. You may need to re-think the camera back. Stronger springs? Black velvet like many old cameras used to have, or maybe even a graflok metal back. Let us know what you figure out. And you will figure it out. That's what seperates the LF crowd from the rest. A little intuitive thinking and some ca'jun ingenuity.

[Mike Troxell]

#2 - What do you use to transport your LF camera, tripod, and "field supplies" on short trips?

Borrow a 8x10 camera and gear for the weekend. Carry it around with you whereever you go. At the end of the weekend return the 8x10. The 4x5 will now feel so light in comparrison that you can handcarry 4x5, filmholders and tripod without even noticing the weight :)

[Darin Cozine]

1 - Clothespins work great for drying negs. You can build an enclosure to keep dust from settling on them while they dry, but I dont worry about it at this early stage.

#2 - Soft coolers work great for camera bags. The insulation makes a very effective padding. They are light, easy to keep clean, and inexpensive. Anything further than 1-2 miles away from the car and I would suggest a backpack. There are many threads here discussing them. I also keep film holders in plastic ziplock bags to ensure against dust.

#3 - Leaky holders are pretty easy to spot on the film. Usually radiates out from a corner. I think tim was correct that the holder was most likely not seated correctly.

[Peter Witkop]

Just one thing to add for #1, I didn't like the idea of using clothspins to hold the 4x5 negs, I was always afraid they didn't grip well enough with the small amount of rebate edge. I use dragon clips (like for electronic conections) hung inside a plastic storage bin, two lengths of string run from one end to the other, 6 clips on each, I put some silica gell beads in the bottom (which get dried out occasionally), and leave the lid just cracked to allow for some air circulation, 12 negs will ussually dry in about 6-12 hours, depending on heat an humidity.

As for carying the camear, and accessories, everyone kinda finds a way that works for them. I started out working with a monorail camera out of it's big case in the passenger seat of my truck, then went went to carying my field camera (bought the field camera after carrying the monorail in a pack, that happened once, and only once) in a soft sided cooler, and finally ended up investing in a lowepro photo trekker, which to me was well worth it. Soft insulated lunch boxes work really well for film holders too.

Peter

[RichSBV]

I'll second (third...) the clothespins for hanging negatives. Wood ones! I use the thin metal clothes hangers also. I bend the two ends back, about two inches from the end. Then twist the hook 90 degrees. This then hangs over the top of a door with 4 clothes pins hanging on the bottom wire. It offers enough room for 2 or 3 4x5's or one 8x10 negative. I clip the pins onto the short edge of the film where the index cuts are. That's usually where there's more room on the neg. The bends in the ends of the hanger are to keep it away from the door. I've never had a dust problem when drying negs, only loading holders ;-) (this idea because of no darkroom currently).

Since I use Graphic cameras in 4x5, I've never had a carrying problem. I have a photo backpack for a Speed setup and the factory cases for everything else.

My 8x10 setup is in an Osprey Transporter 90 backpack/duffel bag. Thge only thing I could find large enough... Like it was said, people find what works for them...

On that #3 "light leakage" problem. If the inside edges are not feathered into the center, it probably was not leakage. If the inside edges are very sharp, look at the orientation of the negative, then look at your camera. Could the bellows have gotten into the light path? Did you use excessive movements on the front? Light leakage in the holder by it's natur will feather into the center and be pretty obvious...

[Louie Powell]

1. I have a few film hanger clips that I picked up at photo flea markets, but the general answer is plastic cloths pins.

2. I have a LowePro back pack - the smaller version. Designed for 35mm, I rearranged the internal partitions to create a large space for the 4x5 at the bottom, and smaller spaces for my lens, meter, loupe, etc along the side, and with a space at the top for film holders. The LowePro design includes tripod straps on the outside.

3. Are your holders new or used? It's not uncommon to get a little leakage at the hinge end of used holders - usually means the tape needs renewing. Leakage along the side sounds more like a problem with the camera back

[Larry Gebhardt]

1) A series of small binder clips on a piece of stiff wire strung in my office.

2) A small MountainSmith waist pack with shoulder straps. Or a larger Tamrack backpack.

3) Follow the advice above to check for light leaks. You can also put a flashlight in the camera, and look at the whole thing in a dark room.

[Calamity Jane]

Thanks for all the great info guys!

I think Mr. O'Brien's got it. I was thinking backwards - lighter stripe down two sides of the negative means it was shadowed so I must not have seated the holder properly. I have 3 Fidelity Elite used (another E-Bay conquest). I was not happy with the springs on the GG - it doesn't snap back into place every time, so maybe it didn't bit down on the film holder. Gonna haffta go steal the wiper blade off my other car to make new springs ;-)

My darkroom is a bathroom and adjoining used-to-be bedroom so I already have a series of cords strung high over the bath tub with a gazillion wooden clothes pegs for drying prints and films. I think maybe I'll take a bunch of the clothes pegs and bandsaw the ends so they grip right on the very outside end.

Think I'll make up a leather pouch with a shoulder strap for carrying my field supplies. My "other hobby" is Cowboy Action Shooting, so I might as well keep my whole outfit "Old West". Do ya think, if I wrapped my Pentax spot meter in leather, anyone would notice it's not 1880's? :-)

[Mike Troxell]

I bought a $5 cooler from Wal-mart. It keeps all my film cool while its sitting in the car and carries everything for short distances. Just wrap your camera in the darkcloth and put it in the cooler with the holders.

[John Cook]

The proper way to hold negatives for drying is Kodak stainless steel dental clips. Made just for this purpose. Have worked perfectly all through the twentieth century.. When I started out everybody had them. I've had fifty which have lasted me since 1960 with constant use.

Kodak has been invaded by a bunch of yuppie MBA's who wouldn't know a piece of photographic gear if it bit them in the butt. So I suppose these are no longer manufactured in Rochester. But with a bit of dilligent searching you can still find them on the web.

If you want a field bag with character, check these out. Very best quality available. 100% American leather. Cast brass fittings. And actually cheaper than many comparable modern nylon gadget bags. Will be used by your grandchildren.

http://www.jwhulmeco.com/shell_bags.htm

[tim atherton]

"If you want a field bag with character, check these out. Very best quality available. 100% American leather. Cast brass fittings. And actually cheaper than many comparable modern nylon gadget bags. Will be used by your grandchildren.

http://www.jwhulmeco.com/shell_bags.htm"

Cute - handbags for men... :-)

[tim o'brien]

Calamity,

First off, someone who signs there name with small letters doesn't deserve a "Mr.". I is jist tim.

Second tim curry, read closer. It's aVW van. Who says it runs? I push that sucker everywhere it needs to go. No pollution, lots of exercise.

Third, plastic clothespins because it's easier to ensure you haven't picked up any undesirable chemicals from being put down on the counter or something. If you sand the inner faces of the clamp with course sandpaper, it grips extremely well. Wood works just as well though.

I had a spring back on a 1926 Zeiss Trona. It's a bit tempermental and I have 'streaked' one or two sheets of film. I have replaced it with another type of springback and the problem has gone away.

tim in san jose

[Calamity Jane]

Found the light leak - there was just a TINY hump on the bottom of the camera back so the film holder would rock almost imperceptably - didn't find it until I took the GG frame off and laid the holder in place. So whether I got a light leak or not depended on whether the holder was rocked one way or t'other. A little work with a flat rasp, a new coat of flat black paint, and that's cured. When I get a chance to expose some more film, I'll see if it's 100% cured.

Now I guess I have to find some aluminum oxide to make a new ground glass. I ground the present one with "fine" valve grinding compound but it's too coarse - under the loupe, all I can see is the roughness of the glass, not the image.....

Thanks for the ideas fellers.

[tribby]

um,

don't use wooden clothespins. they're often treated with water proofing agents and if that soaks into yer negs, no telling what'll happen when you go to dig them out in years to come. i've had some rc prints hanging via clothespins on my bedroom wall for two years(drying simulacrum fer aesthetical porpoises only), and what to my wandering eyes did appear? a chemically bloom around the contact point of said wooden clothespin. it's iridescent in appearence, perchance be it pinesap?

i don't talk like this normally,

tribby t(aka darth kabibble)

p.s. clammity, i love you.

p.p.s. don't shoot.

p.p.p.s Army surplus medium ALICE pack and two or three smallish shok bags found at various garage sales to house lenses, loupes, holders, cable releases so on and on.

[Tim Curry]

I stand corrected. tim in tucson

[tim o'brien]

"I stand corrected. tim in tucson"

Now if you 'push' corrected, you can come visit and I show you some really neat places to shoot up here. Old Craftman houses and the such.

CJ, Someone was offering aluminum oxide for making ground glass either here or on that 'other' site. If you can't find the post, write to me and I can send you enough to do a groundglass or two. I have tons from an unstarted 8" mirror (telescope) project.

tim in san jose

killer_jupiter@hotmail.com

[Andrew O'Neill]

Hi Jane....go to your nearest Loonie store and pick up a circular plastic clothes hanger. I've used one for years...in Japan and here. I even use them for 8x10 negs. That's all I want to say 'cause you've gotten billions of replies.....Go Flames Go!!

[Calamity Jane]

DAMN!

I thought I had found the light leak but I tried 2 more frames tonight and it's exactly the same! I did notice the negatives are real sharp around the two "shadowed" edges and washed out over the rest of the frame....

I took the lens board off, threw the dark cloth over me head and looked thru the front while sweeping the outside of the camera with a small flashlight. The bellows I bought ISN'T light proof - under a bright light, there's light oozing thru the bellows! Whal that explains why my outdoor photos looked washed out (except along two edges) while the indoor photos look fine.

I'm trying to get in touch with the bellows maker and warn him that his material isn't light-proof (before he sells too many more and gets a lot of people mad at him).

I guess I am stuck again! A liberal coat of flat black paint should fix this bellows for now but I guess I have to hunt down some better material and have another go at making my own......

[Nick_3536]

If you're dark cloth is fairly light proof just throw it over the bellows before pulling the darkslide.

[Calamity Jane]

With a coat of flat black paint on the translucent bellows 'n' the dark cloth over top I noticed a couple of things right off: First, the image on the GG is MUCH brighter and a whole lot sharper. Second, with a couple of negatives shot and developed this evening, they now look the way I thought they should - excellent contrast, sharp as a razor, crystal clear darks.

Looks like the leakage was harder on the film than I suspected.

I got in touch with the bellows maker who confirmed the translucence - apparently he got a new batch of material and didn't check it but he has found bellows in his stock the same as mine. He offered me my money back but I suggested he just send me a bellows that works and we'll call it square.

Looks like I am finally in the Large Format business! YEEEEHAAAWWWWW!!!!

[Mark_3632]

I've been reading this thread with interest waiting to see what the problem was. Glad you figured it out. Did you get your bellows from the maker of the kit you bought. I was thinking of having them make a special one for the camera I am designing.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Looks like I am finally in the Large Format business! YEEEEHAAAWWWWW!!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Feels good don't it?

That is exactly how I felt after I finished rebuilding my 5x7. Now I can't put the damn thing down. The wife and other cameras are getting jealous.

Mark

[Calamity Jane]

""Did you get your bellows from the maker of the kit you bought.""

It wasn't a "kit" - just plans - but yes, I got the bellows from the same fellow. I have avoided using his name because I think it was an honest error and I'll give him a chance to make it right - don't want to cast dispersions on someone's good name if it ain't waranted.

Except for the material problem with mine, he makes a nice bellows. I'd trust him to do a custom job - he's a poor starving photographer and I know he could use the work ;-)

[Mark_3632]

I had no plan of bashing him. It does sound like an honest mistake. I wanted to know because I am curious about the Bellows material. They are fairly cheap compared to everything else I have looked at and was wondering what they were made of. Curiosity more than anything.

mark