what 4x5 daylight developing tank (or similar) options are available now, March 2013?

[robert liebermann]

I've done some searching on this, but much of what I find is already discontinued...

I'm new to 4x5, and tray development doesn't seem like it'll fit my style/setup (darkroom availability isn't guaranteed, takes much time, the %$#@ things stick together and the tray, etc.)

I've developed a lot of 35 and 120 in stainless tanks for 20+ years, though - e6, c41, b/w, even Orwochrom (E-4?)! ... Hand agitation, water bath, the whole cheapskate method - it's always worked well for me!

So I'm fixated on loading the film into a tank, turning on the lights (and water!) and doing it like I always have, but with 4x5! I'd like to be able to do 8-16 sheets in a batch in daylight conditions with no 'equipment' (rotator or whatever) needed.

I've never used the plastic tanks, jobo system or whatever else is similar, so not too familiar with the setup/terminology/parts required. For me, developing takes 1) a reel and 2) a tank! Are there jobo or similar tanks that I could hand agitate? What 'parts' would I need - the many model numbers have been too much for me to figure out!

I've seen reference to the Nikor SS tanks, and wow! they are expensive used! Makes me feel silly for whining about the recent increase in roll film tanks... If I had to I'd break down and get the $200-300 if that's all that's left (they'll be $500 next year!) Nikor but wondering if there are any other options left.

So the question: what types of tanks exist/existed that would still be easy to get new or used? From where?

I see that dunk/dip tanks are available on eb, but they use more chemistry than I'd like (esp. with my precious and impossible to get in Alaska E6!), plus the need for a darkroom...

And since I just signed up to this list a few weeks back, I can't see the ads for a while - but if anyone has such a critter for sale, let me know...

[Light Guru]

Check out the mod54. You use it with a Paterson 3 reel tank and can develop up to 6 sheets at a time.

They actually announced a new version of the mod54 this week.

[Brian Ellis]

If you're not wedded to a tank you might look at the BTZS tubes. www.viewcamerastore.com You load the film in the dark, then turn on the lights the rest of the time. They use a maximum of 2 ounces of developer per sheet and take up very little space.

[Vick Ko]

This is an informative thread:
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum44/46555-best-4x5-daylight-developing-tank.html

I plan to go with the Nikor 4x5 tank. Prices seem pretty steady at between $200 and $300.

I also have the Jobo 2521 Tank with 2509 Reel system, but I am tending to try the Nikor first.

[Cletus]

I recall going through all this and asking this same batch of questions when I started shooting sheet film. I don't think the MOD54 was around yet at the time or I'd probably gone that route. Even if I had, I'm sure by now I'd be back to processing sheet film the way I always have - in trays, in the dark.

I was so reluctant to do this for exactly the same reasons the OP states, but then finances, availability of daylight tanks, lack of strong consensus on any particular daylight methods, etc.. So I went ahead and dropped the big coin - $15 for a set of four 5x7 trays and just did it in the dark. Get a regular Gra-lab 300 timer with glow in the dark hands (they won't bother your film) and just do it. You'll probably screw up your first couple rounds, then you'll never want to process sheet film any other way. That's my prediction anyway.

Bottom line, it's not hard to do at all, once you get the hang of it and it actually gives you (or at least me) sort of sense of tactile control over your processing that I doubt can be duplicated with other means. Use a first tray with a water bath. That way you can take your time, in the dark, and unload your holders or boxes into it and not feel rushed getting the film directly into the developer. Gives you a nice prewash too, at least with HP5. You'll find that it's easy to get the routine and the moves down to shuffle the stack (agitate) without scratching the film, although you probably will end up with some scratches the first few times until you get it down. Don't let that lead you to the conclusion that tray processing scratches sheet film. I haven't scratched a single sheet since when I started doing this and I've processed well over a thousand sheets of 4x5 by now I'm sure. Don't do more then about 8 at a time, 10 max, as that's about capacity for the developer in the volume of a small tray - and more than that gets to be hard to handle.

[Trigeek]

If you're not wedded to a tank you might look at the BTZS tubes. www.viewcamerastore.com You load the film in the dark, then turn on the lights the rest of the time. They use a maximum of 2 ounces of developer per sheet and take up very little space.
+1 on the BTZS tubes. Does not use a lot of chemicals and they give you the ability to process each sheet for a different time if that is an advantage for you.

[DannL]

There is a short spiel on using a Unicolor color processing drum here . . . http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/

Many moons ago I tried the tray bit, and after several failed attempts I figured there must be something different. Then I found some of them FR tanks that take about 8 sheets standing vertically in solution. I could never get even development, and the tanks could not be inverted during processing. Then I tried the Unicolor drum mentioned above. I had three or four of these drums, they all leaked and they were prone to scratching the back of the film base. Then at an estate sale I found a Chromega processing drum for (8x10/5x7/4x5/9x12). I think I payed 50 cents. It will handle from one to four sheets of 4x5 at a time. It worked with the Unicolor roller unit that I already owned. It didn't leak a drop, and it didn't scratch the film. Then I found several more, one which was a 11x14 version of the drum. The biggest trouble with these drums is that they are somewhat rare. Occasionally they show up on ebay, but usually incomplete. Potential buyers probably don't realize that the drums they are buying are missing some required parts.

I'll post an image of these tanks and their required parts. If I wasn't able to find the Chromega drums, I would settle on the Unicolor drum and live with the leaks.

I continue to use the Chromega drums. And should they ever give me trouble . . . .

[koh303]

You can do up to 12 sheets per run with the 2550 multitank 5 and 2X 2509 reels. This tank can also be used for roll film with the 2502 reels 35/120.
Use it for inversion or for rotation on a flat surface or get the environmentally friendly 1509 Jobo roller base. A kit like this still be in the 300$ range, but you get alot more flexibility and modular options then with most other systems.

[Light Guru]

There is a short spiel on using a Unicolor color processing drum here . . . http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/

Many moons ago I tried the tray bit, and after several failed attempts I figured there must be something different. Then I found some of them FR tanks that take about 8 sheets standing vertically in solution. I could never get even development, and the tanks could not be inverted during processing. Then I tried the Unicolor drum mentioned above. I had three or four of these drums, they all leaked and they were prone to scratching the back of the film base. Then at an estate sale I found a Chromega processing drum for (8x10/5x7/4x5/9x12). I think I payed 50 cents. It will handle from one to four sheets of 4x5 at a time. It worked with the Unicolor roller unit that I already owned. It didn't leak a drop, and it didn't scratch the film. Then I found several more, one which was a 11x14 version of the drum. The biggest trouble with these drums is that they are somewhat rare. Occasionally they show up on ebay, but usually incomplete. Potential buyers probably don't realize that the drums they are buying are missing some required parts.

I'll post an image of these tanks and their required parts. If I wasn't able to find the Chromega drums, I would settle on the Unicolor drum and live with the leaks.

I continue to use the Chromega drums. And should they ever give me trouble . . . .

the leaking comes from a worn out gasket, you cannot find replacements anywhere but they are easy to make just use the odd one as a template.

[DannL]

the leaking comes from a worn out gasket, you cannot find replacements anywhere but they are easy to make just use the odd one as a template.

I recall making gaskets from plastic coffee can lids.

[unixrevolution]

I know you have big batches in mind and that you don't want a discontinued solution...I also know they're harder to find than hen's teeth, but if you come across a Paterson Orbital Processing Tray, buy it.

I use it to develop my 4x5 and 8x10, up to 4 sheets of 4x5 at a time. Uses very few chemicals and it works in daylight!

[Leonard Evens]

If you're not wedded to a tank you might look at the BTZS tubes. www.viewcamerastore.com You load the film in the dark, then turn on the lights the rest of the time. They use a maximum of 2 ounces of developer per sheet and take up very little space.
The tubes look like a really neat system, and they certainly give you the maximum flexibility. They seem well worth the cost.

I do my developing in a small condo bathroom, and I find that I can develop up to four sheets of film in a Beseler drum on a roller base. It is a little tricky learning to place the film in the drum, but you learn how to do it fairly quickly. I use 4 oz of solution for each session.

Of course if I had to develop six sheets, each for a different time, it would take a lot longer, but I almost never have to do anything like that.

Beseler drums or similar Uniroller drums, along with roller bases, can usually be found at moderate cost on ebay. The roller base makes things easier, but you can, if necessary roll the drum by hand in a water bath in a tray.

[DannL]

Here are some images of the Chromega drums (11x14/17 and 8x10) and their parts. Each drum has three plastic rods which can be moved to various slots for different size papers/films etc. The plastic wings are used as separators. Both drums will turn on a Unicolor Uniroller, or they may be rolled by hand on a flat surface such as a truck-bed or table. These drums do not require gaskets.

917209172191722

[Ari]

Jobo Expert drums or the 2500-series tanks and reels.
Film always comes out perfectly.

[EdSawyer]

I have a nikor 4x5 tank I'd part with for $250. Comes complete with the stainless band.

[cps]

A pair of MOD 54's and a pair of Patterson tanks will do exactly what you are looking to do quickly and easily. I have this set up, and it is super easy. It takes a little practice to load the MOD 54 correctly, but it goes quickly once you have a little practice. Some people note that films with a floppy base get loose and roll around the tank. I use primarily Ilford and Arista (Foma) films and have never had this issue even though I do standard inversion development. The only time I've had bad results is when I didn't follow instructions and loaded film with the emulsion facing the wrong way (out rather than in). Otherwise, I've had nice even skies etc.

With two tanks (6 sheets per tank), it is pretty easy to set up a (short) line and get a lot of sheets done quickly. While load 1 is washing, load 2 is being processed. While load 2 is being washed, load three is being loaded and processed, etc. The MOD and tanks are easy to dry out and re-load. I also like that this integrates very neatly with my MF workflow.

Morgan O'Donovan, who is MOD, just announced his Mk 27 version, which is a nice improvement over the Mk15 I bought several years ago, so I signed up for a couple of them. He's offering a nice upgrade option. Another advantage of this set up is that it is based on new gear you can get now, rather than on a 20 year old item you have to buy on Ebay and hope the parts don't go south.

The other daylight tank option I'm not sure has been mentioned is the HP Combiplan T, which similarly can do six sheets at a time in daylight. It is discontinued, I think, but you can still find legacy parts at B&H.

Chris

[Bob Salomon]

"The other daylight tank option I'm not sure has been mentioned is the HP Combiplan T, which similarly can do six sheets at a time in daylight. It is discontinued, I think, but you can still find legacy parts at B&H."

To be specific, all parts for the CombiPlan are in stock except for the tank body, which is sold out and can not be remade as we would have to make new molds and the tooling costs are simply too high.

We have more of some parts then others and as parts run out of stock they also will not be remade. We have brought all of the inventory of parts over to the USA from the factory in Garmisch where we were making the tanks.

If you are doing black and white the CombiPlan can do 12 sheets at one time if you do them back to back. Some people cut a piece of fiberglass window screen to size as a spacer between the back to back sheets but this isn't really necessary if you pre-soak the film before loading. You can not do color back to back.

[Light Guru]

Morgan O'Donovan, who is MOD, just announced his Mk 27 version, which is a nice improvement over the Mk15 I bought several years ago, so I signed up for a couple of them. He's offering a nice upgrade option.

What is this upgrade option. I don't see anything about upgrades on the website. The price looks to be about the same as before.

[cps]

What is this upgrade option. I don't see anything about upgrades on the website. The price looks to be about the same as before.

I don't recall the specifics on pricing, or if there are limitations that might apply, but he is giving a price break on the new version for folks who bought earlier versions. If you have an earlier version, you might send him an email.

Chris

[paulr]

Jobo Expert drums or the 2500-series tanks and reels.
Film always comes out perfectly.

I used the 2500 series, agitated on an old reversing motor base. Love it, but I did have to tweak my developer formulation to get perfectly streak-free results on TMX. I believe the expert drums have a better flow pattern so you don't have to worry about any of this. Drawback is that the expert drum can only do 10 4x5 sheets at a time vs. 12 for the 2500.

[robert liebermann]

Thanks for all this advice - and to 'cletus' for suggesting I keep trying tray development, which I will; I used to be bad at rolling 35 onto the reel, so I guess everything takes practice. I'll keep reading this and think about the daylight options - nice to know there are a few... Keep the ideas coming!

[MrFujicaman]

Would somebody please post the web site for the MOD27 ?

[Roger Thoms]

http://www.mod54.com/buy.php

Roger

[Light Guru]

Would somebody please post the web site for the MOD27 ?

It's not the mod27 its the mod54. The new version being relieved is being called the mk27.

A simple google search for mod54 will bring up the site.

[bob carnie]

I just got the new Jobo CPP3 delivered from Europe through CatLabs USA and will be using expert tanks ( new ones and the old ones that were leftover from my Alt2300.}
getting excited to put it through its paces and process some film.
Omar at Catlabs has been nothing short of amazing to deal with and I see another one coming in a couple of years for my portable trailer darkroom plus enough reels ,spare parts, tanks to life me another 20 years of processing.91865

We are setting this up for BW and personal C41.

[Sbode]

I've been using the Btzf tubes and they work great and don't take up a lot of space. You can do up to 6 4x5 sheets at a time.

[Roger Thoms]

I've been using the Btzf tubes and they work great and don't take up a lot of space. You can do up to 6 4x5 sheets at a time.

Did you mean BTZS tubes?

Roger

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

I'm a happy owner of a CombiPlan tank.



[...]
If you are doing black and white the CombiPlan can do 12 sheets at one time if you do them back to back.
[...]


that's a really nice idea... but, can I work with the same developer dilutions? didn't the sheets glue one with another?

[Regular Rod]

Trouble free processing this way http://freepdfhosting.com/f640343f29.pdf

RR

[brucetaylor]

I'm a happy owner of a CombiPlan tank.

+ 1. Simple, well made, easy to use, economical.

[Light Guru]

Trouble free processing this way http://freepdfhosting.com/f640343f29.pdf

The processing may be trouble free but finding one of those is definitely not trouble free.

Rod I understand how much you love that processor but unless your going to start manufacturing them telling people to use them is kinda pointless since you can't find them.

If you were to design something similar and and do a kickstarter for it I would back it.

[gevalia]

I'm a happy owner of a CombiPlan tank.



that's a really nice idea... but, can I work with the same developer dilutions? didn't the sheets glue one with another?

In a word, yes. Over the past 5+ years of using 2 different tanks atleast once a week, sheets stick when I double up. That is my experience. But these tanks are not being manufactured anymore anyway. Parts only.

[Regular Rod]

The processing may be trouble free but finding one of those is definitely not trouble free.

Rod I understand how much you love that processor but unless your going to start manufacturing them telling people to use them is kinda pointless since you can't find them.

If you were to design something similar and and do a kickstarter for it I would back it.

eBay Item number: 151299537893

They come up about once a month.

RR

[Bob Salomon]

In a word, yes. Over the past 5+ years of using 2 different tanks atleast once a week, sheets stick when I double up. That is my experience. But these tanks are not being manufactured anymore anyway. Parts only.

1: Some parts only. No more tank bodies are available
2: Back to back is only for B&W film. Not color.
3: To play safe some people pre rinse the film before putting them back to back. Or a major university teaching with the Combi Plan had the students cut pieces of fiberglass screening to size and placed a sheet of the screening between the film sheets.

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

1: Some parts only. No more tank bodies are available
[...]


Bob, do you think new 3D printers are a possible solution to have new tank bodies manufactured?

[Bob Salomon]

Bob, do you think new 3D printers are a possible solution to have new tank bodies manufactured?

Anything is possible but how will the materials used in 3D printing react with the chemistries used in processing? How would the material stand up over the temp. used in processing and to handling? How opaque are they? Would the tank body have to be thicker to be opaque? If so will the top still fit?