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Raffay
15-Mar-2013, 04:53
Hello

I am looking for a Sinar P preferably and older model used, and want to know if anyone has any idea where such cameras can be bought from with confidence. I have checked kEH, currently they only have a F model available. There are tons of these available on ebay, but I am not very comfortable purchasing there. Also, I would like a complete kit at least the whole camera setup minus lenses, as it would be difficult to arrange all the parts sitting in Pakistan from different vendors.

Any input from those experienced in such purchases would be appreciated.

Cheers


Raffay

Richard Raymond
15-Mar-2013, 06:22
Raffay,
Check with Adorama in New York City. They usually have some used Sinar P's and could probably put together a package for you.
Ric

europanorama
18-Mar-2013, 08:55
Raffay,
Check with Adorama in New York City. They usually have some used Sinar P's and could probably put together a package for you.
Ric
on ebay. i have just seen some. from germany if i dont err.

Raffay
18-Mar-2013, 10:14
I found one here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290881044789#shId but my only worry is how would you know if it is a good deal, I mean you cannot tell from these pictures, and also would not know if everything is working or not. Thats why I want to get it from a fellow member...if there is one up for sale...

DavyG
18-Mar-2013, 10:47
Raffay, I have an older Sinar P2 (I think) that I wouldn't mind selling you, but the shipping cost to Pakistan would be absurd! Around 300 US$ !!!! It is a nice, but enormously heavy camera. I would advice you to find something lighter :)

Raffay
18-Mar-2013, 18:29
Raffay, I have an older Sinar P2 (I think) that I wouldn't mind selling you, but the shipping cost to Pakistan would be absurd! Around 300 US$ !!!! It is a nice, but enormously heavy camera. I would advice you to find something lighter :)

How heavy to be exact? Is it possible for you to post a few pictures. If my memory serves me right, I think I have someone living in your area, if that's the case then I can maybe ask them to pick it up.

Cheers
Raffay

Raffay
18-Mar-2013, 18:35
That's what makes me a little scared shopping on eBay, I mean I emailed the guy in Germany for the Sinar P and he emailed me back saying that he would ship to Pakistan and that shipping would be 57 euros and that I should pay through western union, not secure at all, and how come he can ship from Germany in half the price of what DavyG has suggested from Scandinavia...unless I am missing something.

I don't mind paying more as long as I know that I will have a camera at the end of the day 😄

Cheers

Raffay

DavyG
19-Mar-2013, 00:56
It is very heavy. I don't know how heavy exactly, but I have trouble lifting it's case alone, and I'm fairly strong. Maybe 20 - 25 kg? I'll send you some pictures as soon as I Get the chance.

Or maybe I'm weaker than I'd like to think and it's really more like 15 kg :) I guess I'll have to put on a scale before I can tell for sure

Michael_4514
19-Mar-2013, 03:56
Raffay, the seller wants payment through Western Union because he does not want Pay Pal reversing the charges on him. Many if most sellers would outright refuse to sell to a buyer in Pakistan because, sadly, the region has a rather unsavory reputation.

I don't see any reason to distrust the seller, but of course I have no way of knowing.

Mike



That's what makes me a little scared shopping on eBay, I mean I emailed the guy in Germany for the Sinar P and he emailed me back saying that he would ship to Pakistan and that shipping would be 57 euros and that I should pay through western union, not secure at all, and how come he can ship from Germany in half the price of what DavyG has suggested from Scandinavia...unless I am missing something.

I don't mind paying more as long as I know that I will have a camera at the end of the day ��

Cheers

Raffay

Ken Lee
19-Mar-2013, 04:24
From http://www.sinar.ch/en/category/products/cameras/p2/

Technical Data
Sinar p2 45″

Item number: 491.76.000
Camera format: 45″
Convertable to: 57″, 810″ and Sinar p3
Adjustment ranges:
Vertical shifts: -4cm to +4cm
Horizontal shifts: Left 3cm to Right 5cm
Coarse tilt: 45
Fine tilt: 19
Swing: 50
Fine focus: 5 cm
Bellows extensions with Multipurpose Bellows: 4 bis 45 cm
Weight: 5.9 kg

5.9 kg = 13 pounds

I am not a big strong fellow, and I'm in my late 50's, but I often carry mine around, short distances from the car. Here's a Sinar P out in the field, with a 5x7 back (which makes it heavier than 5.9 kg). Whatever the back, the Sinar P can be carried in an affordable canvas bag (left). Just place the camera pointing down into the bag, and place the rail through the straps of the bag. It's not fancy (and it doesn't say Nikon or Canon in big letters) but it works.

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/gear.jpg

Raffay, you may want to get an extension rail if you plan to use longer lenses or focus closely. Rails come in a variety of lengths, and in 2 kinds, with either red or black tips. You'll notice that the camera in the photo has a rail with a red tip: this allows the addition of another rail, which is carried in the blue beverage-cooler bag. (Red rails can be joined ad infinitum, and black rails are end-pieces if I'm not mistaken. They are like cars on a train: some are designed to couple to others, while some are designed to be on the ends).

Raffay
19-Mar-2013, 04:47
Raffay, the seller wants payment through Western Union because he does not want Pay Pal reversing the charges on him. Many if most sellers would outright refuse to sell to a buyer in Pakistan because, sadly, the region has a rather unsavory reputation.

I don't see any reason to distrust the seller, but of course I have no way of knowing.

Mike

I know we Pakistanis have earned quite a reputation :) The only reason I am a little reluctant with western union and an unknown seller is because I have had a bad experience. What I have learnt from my experience is that if the deal is too good to be true as in this case then you need to a extra careful. I mean currently the camera is for 131 US Dollars, although it might go up as there is still time before the bidding ends, and then as Ken pointed out the P2 is 13 pounds and the seller is saying that shipping to Pakistan will only be 57 Euros, imagine if I can manage a camera between 200 and 250 US Dollars, what else do I want...but thats the very thing that is making me a little nervous, I am sure the seller might also have the same feeling from a Pakistani buyer. But in the end it will be me who will have to take that chance...

Cheers

Raffay

DavyG
19-Mar-2013, 04:51
I just weighed the camera. And I may need to review my look on my own strength :D It weighs under 10 kg, as Ken Lee pointed out, which will reduce the shipping cost to around 150 US$. I'll send you some pictures tonight, Raffay

Raffay
19-Mar-2013, 04:52
From http://www.sinar.ch/en/category/products/cameras/p2/
.

Is the P2 still in production, if yes any idea what is costs?

Cheers

Raffay

Raffay
20-Mar-2013, 05:09
I just weighed the camera. And I may need to review my look on my own strength :D It weighs under 10 kg, as Ken Lee pointed out, which will reduce the shipping cost to around 150 US$. I'll send you some pictures tonight, Raffay

When will you post the pictures?

Jonathan Barlow
20-Mar-2013, 12:38
I know we Pakistanis have earned quite a reputation :) The only reason I am a little reluctant with western union and an unknown seller is because I have had a bad experience. What I have learnt from my experience is that if the deal is too good to be true as in this case then you need to a extra careful. I mean currently the camera is for 131 US Dollars, although it might go up as there is still time before the bidding ends, and then as Ken pointed out the P2 is 13 pounds and the seller is saying that shipping to Pakistan will only be 57 Euros, imagine if I can manage a camera between 200 and 250 US Dollars, what else do I want...but thats the very thing that is making me a little nervous, I am sure the seller might also have the same feeling from a Pakistani buyer. But in the end it will be me who will have to take that chance...

Cheers

Raffay


That looked like a nice Sinar P 4x5 that sold for the relatively low price of $400 US. No seller in the West is going to accept PayPal or credit cards for a shipment to Pakistan.

Raffay
20-Mar-2013, 19:44
No seller in the West is going to accept PayPal or credit cards for a shipment to Pakistan.

Not entirely true :)

Jerry Flynn
21-Mar-2013, 08:16
Raffay,

You ask if the P2 is still in production. In theory - yes. It's still listed on the Sinar website (www.sinar.ch). Finding someone who stocks them is something else. There are dealers listed on the website, including one in Karachi (SMI Photo Systems), but I'm sure they are concentrated on the digital products.

Besides, you were looking for a used P. There appear to be a lot of used Sinars in Europe. I hope you can find a seller willing to ship to Pakistan.

Raffay
22-Mar-2013, 20:42
Hello Flynn, I checked with Sinar and they are saying that it is out of production now, and the best way to find it, would be to check in the used market. I checked with SMI and as you mentioned all the dealers are more geared towards digital, they say they have one in used, but are reluctant to give a price, I am not sure why.

I was hoping I could find something outside of ebay, but I guess there is little choice.

Cheers

Raffay

Raffay
24-Mar-2013, 03:00
I'll send you some pictures tonight, Raffay

Hi DavyG, hope you are well, believe you got busy with something, just wanted to let you know that I am waiting for those pictures :)

Cheers

Raffay

Raffay
27-Mar-2013, 05:06
No idea how to bump someone for a reply :)

Leonard Robertson
27-Mar-2013, 06:53
If you click on his user name at the top of his post, a profile for him will come up. On the left hand side of that page click on "Send A Private Message", and you can send a message via the forum. He will see a notification when your message comes in.

Len

Raffay
27-Mar-2013, 08:14
Thank you, somehow he has disappeared. Hope that he is alright, cameras come and go.

Jerry Flynn
27-Mar-2013, 08:58
Raffay,

Interesting what you say that Sinr no longer makes a film-based view camera. I guess you could put a roll back on the P3, but it seems like some sort of landmark that a company that was once a leader in the field has gotten out. As we say, "Sign of the times".

Kevin J. Kolosky
27-Mar-2013, 09:19
I assume by your post that you trust the people on this board.
If that assumption is correct, then you would be willing to specify the price you want to pay and send money so that the person can purchase the camera for you. I have done this for people in many countries before, the last ones being Sweden and Spain for some reason.

Ebay is always going to be your best bet for a used Sinar P or P2 (that is where I bought my P2 many years ago). Transactions in the United States between people who live in the United States are relatively safe.

So, its a matter of deciding exatly what you want, and what you want to pay for it, and what your budget is for shipping as well, and then finding someone here who you trust. You send the money - he buys you a camera - and sends it to you.

Sounds complicated, but its really not if the communication is good and you have a bit of patience.

DavyG
29-Mar-2013, 14:21
As requested by Raffay, I am posting the pictures of my Sinar here, so it can be scrutinized...

92254 92255 92256 92257

Can Anyone say, which model this is? I have more pics if it should be necessary...

gerry schnaible
29-Mar-2013, 16:09
Hello

I am looking for a Sinar P preferably and older model used, and want to know if anyone has any idea where such cameras can be bought from with confidence. I have checked kEH, currently they only have a F model available. There are tons of these available on ebay, but I am not very comfortable purchasing there. Also, I would like a complete kit at least the whole camera setup minus lenses, as it would be difficult to arrange all the parts sitting in Pakistan from different vendors.

Any input from those experienced in such purchases would be appreciated.

Cheers


Raffay

I deal on ebay all the time and would give you these suggestions.
1) Do not deal with a seller that has anything less than a 100% feedback.
2) I limit using sellers with less the 200 feedbacks. It shows they have been there a while and normally are trust worthy.
3) Communicate with the seller. Honest sellers do not mind questions whatsoever. In fact they encourage it because it goes a long way toward avoiding problems after the sale.
4) In many ways the amount of respect you receive is equal to the amount you give. Avoid appearing brusque or demanding. A person that views you this way will likely tell you much more if he considers you to be a reasonable person.

I have been a seller on eBay for 12 years. I have never had anyone give me anything but praise. I recall sending a person an item I had listed as like new. I was confused and when the buyer asked me about it, it was a Bogen 3047 tripod, I realized the error. I instantly offered to refund all of his money. He said I should deduct the shipping and handling but I said no. He asked where he could return it and I told him that the shipping was prohibitive and that he could keep the item. About a week later I saw a post from him on a forum where he named me, ebay name, and said what a wonderful dealer I was. A number of folks contacted me about buying things as a result. It was just being honest and respecting the error I had made that convinced him to give me a recommendation completely away from eBay. I never mind a person asking a question many times if it clears up any confusion in his mind.

Good Luck. I recently picked an entire Horseman LC with lenses and a ton of other things. When I got them they didn't even have any fingerprints on them. I had exchanges at least 8 emails with this seller and it paid off well.
:)

Jonathan Barlow
29-Mar-2013, 17:22
As requested by Raffay, I am posting the pictures of my Sinar here, so it can be scrutinized...

92254 92255 92256 92257

Can Anyone say, which model this is? I have more pics if it should be necessary...


It's a Sinar P 4x5 plus a universal standard (F1), extra 4x5 bellows, 4x5 wide angle bellows, lens hood accessories, binocular viewing attachment, etc.

Raffay
29-Mar-2013, 20:30
Does it have a metering back?

DavyG
30-Mar-2013, 11:49
I just tried googleing "metering back", to see if I could figure out what it is. As far as I can tell, my Sinar doesn't have it.

Kevin J. Kolosky
30-Mar-2013, 13:28
Unless you are going to be doing extremely sensitive tabletop photography you don't need a metering back. But if you want to use one you are going to have to find a metering probe and either a Minolta IV meter or a Sinar Meter for it to work.

Right now there is a Sinar X on Ebay for $500.00 that looks to be in great condition. The sinar x can't be made into a larger camera like a 5 x 7 or an 8 x 10, and it doesn't have a metering back (although you could put one on it) but otherwise its pretty much like a P2. Great Camera!! You should jump on it!!