Open Source 3d Printable Medium Format Pinhole Camera

[matthewd]

Hi I just started a indiegogo campaign to fund the development of my design for a 3d printable medium format pinhole camera. You see it here. http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/open-source-3d-printed-medium-format-pinhole-camera/x/490700 90825

[RawheaD]

I'm curious, how are you going to secure light-tightness? I just found out recently the hard way that, e.g., the Black Strong Flexible material available from Shapeways is pretty much translucent, at least at 1 mm thickness, and completely useless for photographic work that requires seal from light without some kind of postprocessing.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

I found that three thin air-brushed layers of mat black paint on the inside of the "natural" 3d material is light tight.

[Steven Tribe]

This is let "someone else Do It", rather than D-I-Y!
We have had these approaches before - how is this different from a Ponzi scheme?

[matthewd]

I've printed test parts in black pla at 3mm thickness and with a full infill setting and it was completely light tight by itself.

If you have a printer it will be a diy , especially when you make the springs and bellows.

I really don't see how its related to a ponzi scheme, ponzi schemes usually involve financial invest for financial gain. On my campaign you could buy a pretty low price camera and receive a camera with alot of features you cant normally find for as cheap as this.

[Steven Tribe]

In spite of all the words (like "open source" etc.) you use, this is still a selling activity you are engaged in.

This has no place here and I hope the Moderators are active to-night!

[Jim C.]

If this is a medium format camera and not large format I'm curious as to how
you're going to address the longevity of the film advance mech ?

[Roger Cole]

Well it's not Ponzi that I can see. It's not LF though, and it is in an LF forum. I really don't know the rules for things like Indigogo and Kickstarter and such here, but I don't see anything wrong with the idea whatever the particular local rules are.

[matthewd]

After I finish this one I will convert it for larger formats and 35mm.

The film advance mechanism is very solid, it consists of 4 parts, the top of the body , knob, the knob washer and the spring. The spring is a torsion spring that fits tightly around the knob and the arm of the spring fits into a slot in the top of the body. So when you advance the film it loosens the spring and allows it move forward, and when you let go it tightens and doesn't allow backwards movement. It allows very tiny adjustment, like factions of a mm, with no backwards movement. This part has been printed and tested when I had access to a 3d printer. You can download the parts here. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11057

90863
Picture doesnt show the spring or the knob washer/bolt that is press fitted.

[Steven Tribe]

Indiegoogo says this about fraud in campaigns on their site:



Indiegogo has a comprehensive fraud-prevention system to protect our users. All campaigns and contributions go through a fraud review, which allows us to catch any and all cases of fraud. If we find fraudulent contributions on your campaign, we may remove them from your campaign Funds and Fulfillment pages. We may also ask you for more information, if we determine your campaign to be a high fraud risk. Finally, all campaigns that raise money go through a final examination before any funds are disbursed.

Indiegogo requires campaign owners to fufill their Perks as a part of our Terms of Service. Perks are manged solely by campaign owners; we do not guarantee or take any legal responsibility for Perk fulfillment. Contributors can use our Terms of Service as a document in the court of law, should you choose to take legal action against a campaign owner for failing to fulfill a Perk. In general, contributors are advised that they are contributing to an idea, not making a purchase in a store. Like anyone contributing to an early-stage project, you accept the risk that the project might not come to fruition. We leave it up to you to make your own judgment about the merit of a campaign before making a contribution. Fortunately, the democratic nature of crowd funding makes it easy to judge a campaign's likelihood of success. In order for any campaign to be successful, campaign owners have to put thought and effort into their Pitch and convince a crowd of people to support their cause. Campaigns that are not transparent with their goals and project status tend not to attract contributors.


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My colour highlighting.
I doubt whether Indieagogo has the manpower or inclination to get involved in disputes - sounds like Ebay!

[matthewd]

I've been ripped off better hard on ebay. I once sold a laptop as parts( not working), the guy striped the computer of memory and harddrive, then said it didnt work, sent it back striped and I had to refund his money.

I assure you if you do contribute to a camera it will be fulfilled or full return of your money.

[C. D. Keth]

Sweet, so you want other people to fund your hobby? I should try that. I'll start a kickstarter to buy myself film.

[matthewd]

Sort of but not exactly, I'd rather people contribute to the development of a open source camera and receive a camera in return. Try it out, cant hurt to much, a lot of people are raising a lot of funds for film projects.

[Jim C.]

After I finish this one I will convert it for larger formats and 35mm.

The film advance mechanism is very solid, it consists of 4 parts, the top of the body , knob, the knob washer and the spring. The spring is a torsion spring that fits tightly around the knob and the arm of the spring fits into a slot in the top of the body. So when you advance the film it loosens the spring and allows it move forward, and when you let go it tightens and doesn't allow backwards movement. It allows very tiny adjustment, like factions of a mm, with no backwards movement. This part has been printed and tested when I had access to a 3d printer. You can download the parts here.

Do you have a full up working prototype ?
I'm just curious as how it'll hold up in real life use, most inexpensive desktop 3D printers
don't use the strongest plastics, considering that the advance mech will take the brunt of
the work I would say that acetal plastics would hold up better than ABS.

[RawheaD]

Ponzi scheme (from Wikipedia): A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation.

By definition, then, a crowdsourced project is not a Ponzi scheme.

They could be fraudulent; they could be ethically questionable; but they're not Ponzi schemes.

[RawheaD]

I'm not endorsing the OP's project in any way, and I don't need a pinhole camera. But I don't think there is anything inherently wrong about what he's doing. $1600 is not a lot of money to ask in return for hundreds of hours of work trying to perfect something like a working camera system.

Here's a Kickstarter project that I jumped on immediately and ended up helping the guy in the process enough that he mentioned me by name in acknowledgment when the project was funded.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/71185779/duo-a-diy-twin-lens-reflex-camera-for-instant-film

The guy was awesome in responding to input from all of his backers, and as you can see, he put in a TON of work to get this thing going, and a TON more to make it near perfection. The idea itself is exciting (3x4 Instant film TLR? COME ON!!!), and what's being asked for it is chump change, in view of, say, what you'd need to spend to get yourself a Polaroid 180 with an OK Tominon lens. Considering the guy got close to 200% of what was his original goal, he may walk away from the project with a little change in his pocket. And I say all the power to him.

What the OP is presenting here is a "product proposition". Like all crowdsourced projects, what's being asked is for potential customers to chip in to the R&D process. Acquiring a personal 3D printer is essential for something like that (I should know... I've been fooling around with a few little projects using Shapeways, and the turnaround time is a killer). What should be judged is whether or not you can find the proposed product exciting enough and the proposed form of the deliverables satisfying enough for you to cough up the dough, not criticizing the (possible) motives behind it. IMNSHO.

What I find much more egregious is a full-blown corporate entity like Lomography to use crowdsourcing to raise R&D costs:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lomography/the-lomography-smartphone-film-scanner?ref=live

:P

[matthewd]

Do you have a full up working prototype ?
I'm just curious as how it'll hold up in real life use, most inexpensive desktop 3D printers
don't use the strongest plastics, considering that the advance mech will take the brunt of
the work I would say that acetal plastics would hold up better than ABS.

I have a working prototype of the film back that includes the winding mechanism. If it did eventually wear
down the plastic where the spring rubs the plastic, it'd be a easy fix by taking it apart and making the spring
a little tighter. I'd say the film advance mechanism is the toughest part of the camera. The weakest part I'd
say that still needs a little work is the part that holds the film because it has to flex a little to allow the film
to be put on and alot of flexing over time makes plastic alot weaker.



Thats a pretty neat tlr, is he going to release the plans for the laser cut parts to the public?

[Jim C.]

I have a working prototype of the film back that includes the winding mechanism. If it did eventually wear
down the plastic where the spring rubs the plastic, it'd be a easy fix by taking it apart and making the spring
a little tighter. I'd say the film advance mechanism is the toughest part of the camera. The weakest part I'd
say that still needs a little work is the part that holds the film because it has to flex a little to allow the film
to be put on and alot of flexing over time makes plastic alot weaker.


Like I mentioned before 'home' 3D printers don't use the best plastics, especially when it comes to moving parts
that take stress. Med format cameras have been around for more than half a century,
get one and see what they did, 90% still work to this day.

Best of luck to you.

[matthewd]

Like I mentioned before 'home' 3D printers don't use the best plastics, especially when it comes to moving parts
that take stress. Med format cameras have been around for more than half a century,
get one and see what they did, 90% still work to this day.

Best of luck to you.

I have quite a few, I got the ideal for the film advancing mechanism from one.

Thanks

[Roger Cole]

One could probably design a body and pinhole aperture etc. that accepted and interfaced with a 120 back from some common MF camera. That would make most of the film support and transport mechanism strong, readily available, up to the task and, if the right model were selected, pretty inexpensive.

[matthewd]

One could probably design a body and pinhole aperture etc. that accepted and interfaced with a 120 back from some common MF camera. That would make most of the film support and transport mechanism strong, readily available, up to the task and, if the right model were selected, pretty inexpensive.

The 120 back for the camera has already been printed out and tested when i had access to a 3d printer before i moved. My goal is to design a camera with minimal non printed parts as possible. So far you'll only need 4 non printed parts, 2 springs, the bellows and a remote shutter release cable. But I plan to design one without the need for the shutter release cable so you could make the camera at home without buying anything you couldn't get at a local hardware store.

[Drew Bedo]

I'm sorry—WHY is this a good idea?

Seems to me that medium format pinhole cameras may be made from Ansco/Agfa folders with an aperature plate replacing the glass elements—or use a Holga for the film transport portion.


And its medium format; whats with THAT?

[SergeiR]

umm.. sorry, but i got to agree. LF DIY?