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ryanmills
6-Mar-2013, 11:19
I just received a Ektar 127mm f4.7 and it has a supermatic #1 shutter on it. I just about need a spanner wrench to change the shutter speed. Is that normal or am I suppose to hold something down to change it?

Jac@stafford.net
6-Mar-2013, 11:24
Always change the speed before cocking the shutter.

Did you do that?

ryanmills
6-Mar-2013, 11:27
yea its not cocked, from about 100 to 2 its semi moveable, I cant even get it to 400 and to get it to 1 I really have to twist on it. not sure I could even do it mounted on a lens board. Is it safe to say that's not normal?

Jac@stafford.net
6-Mar-2013, 11:49
Turning to the highest speed is often difficult, but not that difficult. Moving it to 1/2 should be easy.
Something is wrong, which is not unusual with the Supermatic.

Mark Sampson
6-Mar-2013, 11:50
I've had a couple Supermatic shutters like that. Most likely gummed-up lubricants from decades of disuse. A trip to the repair shop cured both of mine... btw, I just realized that the 1948 Supermatic (that holds my 135 WF Ektar) was last cleaned up in 1989, and it's still working fine.

ryanmills
6-Mar-2013, 11:53
How crazy would I have to be to try and lube it myself?

ryanmills
6-Mar-2013, 12:10
Would removing the front and rear elements and flushing with lighter fluid do me any good?

Jac@stafford.net
6-Mar-2013, 12:29
I don't know, Ryan, but it couldn't hurt!

Best of luck on this one.

James E Galvin
6-Mar-2013, 12:34
The front of that shutter comes off easily. The speed ring that turns has dried up grease. Take it off, clean it and the surfaces it contacts, alcohol is fine. Then lube with a very small amount of light grease. It should now turn very easily, except for going to 400 is stiffer as that step tensions a spring. Don't get grease into the shutter internal parts. The wheel and spring for 400 just sets in its hole, best to not invert the shutter when the front is off so that you have to figure out how it goes back in. When putting the speed ring back on, you have to turn it back and forth (gently) so the prongs sticking up from the works go back into their slots in the speed ring. NOTHING requires force.
I think lighter fluid is an emergency quick and short term fix, the shutter blades have to be clean so they don't stick together, the lighter fluid will move old grease between the blades, making them sticky.

E. von Hoegh
6-Mar-2013, 12:38
Would removing the front and rear elements and flushing with lighter fluid do me any good?

No.
The shutter needs to be disassembled, cleaned, and relubricated with the proper lubricants applied in the proper amounts, in the proper places.

By "proper amounts", think of this - a single drop of oil (watch oil, not 3-in-1) will suffice for several shutters of your type.

ryanmills
6-Mar-2013, 13:00
Would isopropyl alcohol or rubbing alcohol work? What type of grease would be good for this and what type of store would have it?



The front of that shutter comes off easily. The speed ring that turns has dried up grease. Take it off, clean it and the surfaces it contacts, alcohol is fine. Then lube with a very small amount of light grease. It should now turn very easily, except for going to 400 is stiffer as that step tensions a spring. Don't get grease into the shutter internal parts. The wheel and spring for 400 just sets in its hole, best to not invert the shutter when the front is off so that you have to figure out how it goes back in. When putting the speed ring back on, you have to turn it back and forth (gently) so the prongs sticking up from the works go back into their slots in the speed ring. NOTHING requires force.
I think lighter fluid is an emergency quick and short term fix, the shutter blades have to be clean so they don't stick together, the lighter fluid will move old grease between the blades, making them sticky.

E. von Hoegh
6-Mar-2013, 13:02
Would isopropyl alcohol or rubbing alcohol work? What type of grease would be good for this and what type of store would have it?

Ryan, read my post above about what needs to be done.
Do you want a reliable shutter? If so, get it done properly.

Leonard Robertson
6-Mar-2013, 13:26
Ryan - I was curious just how hard a Supermatic speed ring should turn, so I went and grabbed one of my 127mm Ektars. This is a lens I got at an estate sale several years ago and never have used. To my dismay, my speed setting ring absolutely won't turn at all. To make it worse, the front lens cell doesn't want to unscrew, even using my favorite rubber gripper. I hope you can get your front cell loose. Here is one page on shutter cleaning I had Bookmarked: http://shutter-cla.blogspot.com/ If you search Google Images for "flash supermatic shutter" there are several pics of the inside of these shutters. From the image, you can click to the page it is from and possibly find repair information. Let me know if you can't unscrew your front cell. I may fiddle with mine until I get an idea to loosen it.

Len

Dan Fromm
6-Mar-2013, 14:16
Len, I know this seems odd but it has worked for me. Press front cell into a car tire's sidewall and turn the shutter to unscrew the cell.

BrianShaw
6-Mar-2013, 14:21
... just make sure that the car is stationary at the time!

Leonard Robertson
6-Mar-2013, 14:44
Brian - I'm glad you clarified Dan's advice. I live next to a state highway and most of the cars going by are moving rather fast! ;) Luckily I have three dead Datsuns scattered around outside to try the tire trick on.

Len

Leonard Robertson
7-Mar-2013, 10:14
I just found a Supermatic repair thread over on one of the "other" forums:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum44/115885-graphic-no-2-kodak-supermatic-shutter-repair.html

The tire trick didn't work for me yesterday, although it was rather damp outside. I'm going to try again if the sun comes out. I'm starting to think I may need to bore a thick piece of aluminum sheet to size and make a "wrench" similar to those plastic filter removal wrenches that once were common on the market.

Len

BrianShaw
7-Mar-2013, 11:04
IDK about aluminium. The fiber wrenches are availble at microtools, and if I didn't have time to order and rubber grips didn't work... I'd head to the hardware/plumbing shop and take a look at soft-jaw pliers used for polished plumbing fixtures. I have an old one (with hardened rubber at this point) and it appears to have "just the right curve" for a lens of that size.

Although I totally agree with EvH... I did a makeshift repair to a Graphex that was hard to turn with just "the right amount of the right grease" on both the helper spring and the speed cam. It worked. The shutter still needs a full overhaul, but it is at least usable. Tread carefully whatever you choose to do since the last thing you really want to do is take a box of parts, or what you hope are all the parts, to a repair shop and have to admit to getting in over your head. :)

Leonard Robertson
9-Mar-2013, 10:00
I tried Dan's tire trick again and finally got the front cell to unscrew. I remembered I had an unmounted tire here in the house warming up to mount on a rim. I think the warmer rubber gave a better grip on the front of the lens cell. I then removed the single screw through the face plate, located below the word "Graphic". Do this with the shutter inside a shallow box so when you drop the screw you can find it. Before removing anything make note of the position of the face plate (plate with the shutter speed numbers on it) and outer knurled ring (the ring that is supposed to turn to change shutter speeds) relative to the shutter case. I had to stick a small screw driver in one of the slots on the side of the case and gently pry up against the knurled ring. Once the ring came loose, I could turn the knurled ring together with the face plate (they were still stuck together at this point). The face plate needs to be turned 1/3 of a turn to come off. There are three cutouts around the outside of the inner barrel and three "bumps" on the inner diameter of the face plate. Turn the face plate 1/3 turn and the "bumps" line up with the cutouts allowing the face plate to lifted off. I had to lift the face plate and knurled ring together and sneak them out from under the aperture setting lever. Once I got them off the shutter, I could separate the two. They were stuck together will old grease. I used a couple of dry Q-tips to wipe the grease off the back of the face plate and both sides of the knurled ring. I didn't use any cleaner nor did I add any more grease at this point. I stuck the ring and face plate back on (maybe dumb luck everything lined up with the levers and pins on the inner shutter mechanism) and reinstalled the screw. The knurled ring now turns to select shutter speeds and amazingly the speeds, even 1 second, sound pretty good. Or good enough to test shoot the lens before paying for a complete clean and lube on the shutter. I'll probably try a C&L on this shutter in the future, but for now it will go into my pile of 1000 things to do when I retire.

Len

Dan Fromm
9-Mar-2013, 14:30
Len, not my trick. It was known long before I came out from under my cabbage leaf.