Shooting roll film on a Crown Graphic, is that wimping out?

[Vick Ko]

I shot my Crown Graphic with a 6x9cm roll film back today, hand-held.

Okay, it was awkward. I have better ways to shoot 6x9cm (Bessa II, Super Ikonta 531/2, Fuji 690's). But I really like the convenience of roll film.

Is the only reason to shoot 4x5 cameras the 4x5 film? I am beginning to think so. I haven't gotten to loading up film & holders yet. The only 4x5 that I've shot is Quickloads and I have none left. And that was colour, so I didn't have to deal with processing.

I guess I just have to "bite the bullet" and do a real 4x5 shoot.

So for you, does shooting MF roll film on a view camera just defeat the purpose of using a view camera?

...Vick

[Terry Christian]

No, you're just fine and you needn't feel guilty about shooting roll film in a 4x5 camera.
Of course, people will give you many reasons why they shoot view cameras; but availability of movements are one of the major reasons, and few small or medium format cameras have the same types of movements as view cameras. So ahead and keep shooting roll film as long as you like, but be prepared for sheet film to rock your world once you get around to it!

[RawheaD]

I say Yes and no. I had/have a 6x7 and 6x9 roll film holders for 4x5. I just felt they were a waste. Why shoot 6x7 awkwardly on 4x5 when I can shoot my Pentax 67II? Why 6x9, when I can shoot with my Mamiya Universal or 2x3 Century Graphic (Fuji 690, you name it). There are cheaper and/or better alternatives out there.

With that said, you can also shoot 6x12 with nothing but a cheap-ish Da-Yi 612 roll film back. Now THAT is something you cannot do cheaply outside of a 4x5 + 612 back combination (think Horseman, Alpa, etc). There's even 6x17 backs for 4x5 (though I doubt the horizontal coverage would be 100%).

Buy a box of Shanghai GP3 and a Grafmatic back that can do 6 sheets at a time, and shoot 4x5 film handheld. THAT is a thrill :)

[Vick Ko]

Yeah, I got a Grafmatic a while back. Gotta figure out how to load it and whether it actually works.

And I gotta try to develop 4x5 in a daylight tank. I can't yet fathom standing in the dark, slopping negatives for 10 minutes in developer, 30 sec in stop bath and another 8 minutes of fixing.

[RawheaD]

Real simple; one of the best B&W you can get is Rodinal 1:100 stand so you really don't need any processor, don't even have to do a lot of inversion, and it's cheap to boot :D

[Jim Jones]

Yeah, I got a Grafmatic a while back. Gotta figure out how to load it and whether it actually works.

And I gotta try to develop 4x5 in a daylight tank. I can't yet fathom standing in the dark, slopping negatives for 10 minutes in developer, 30 sec in stop bath and another 8 minutes of fixing.

Turn the lights on after a minute or two in the fix, and sit, not stand.

[Terry Christian]

And I gotta try to develop 4x5 in a daylight tank.

I do the "taco method," four sheets at a time in a Paterson tank. Easy. Soon I'm planning to try the Unicolor drum method to see if I like it better.

[BrianShaw]

See post #2 for my opinion.

[Dan Fromm]

Vick, yes it is wimping out. What's wrong with that? I mean, you're the one you have to satisfy, not me.

Oh, and by the way, I shoot roll film on 2x3 Graphics, am not sure that doing that with a larger Graphic makes sense unless you're going to shoot 6x12. But, again, you're using your resources and you have your preferences.

Go and be happy,

Dan

[Old Guy]

. . . . But I really like the convenience of roll film.

Is the only reason to shoot 4x5 cameras the 4x5 film? ...Vick

I suppose each of us sees convenience in a different light. For myself, roll-film is just a big "rock-in-the-road". For some silly reason, when shooting roll-film, I always find myself holding off on developing and printing until the roll is mostly exposed. The way I like to work, it usually takes me weeks to fill a roll with worthwhile exposures. Sadly, by that time, I've done moved on to new horizons.

For me the convenience in sheet film has been that I can make a single exposure or two and immediately move on to developing and printing, with a minimum of delay. It sure helps to keep the momentum moving in one specific direction.

[Peter Gomena]

One advantage to a roll film back on a Crown is that if your usual lens for 4x5 is a 127 Ektar, 135mm Schneider Xenar (Xenotar?) or similar small-image-circle lens, you have some room for movements. I always found mine to be an inconvenient pain, but it was handy when I needed a tighter crop.

[rich815]

I feel that way too with my 6x7 and 6x12 roll backs but often want to shoot with some of my unique LF lenses, including some Petzvals, with my Speed Graphic. The convenience and ease of the 120 film often overrides my desire for the notch higher in quality 4x5 would give. Plus the results are still darn wonderful.

[cyrus]

I can't yet fathom standing in the dark, slopping negatives for 10 minutes in developer, 30 sec in stop bath and another 8 minutes of fixing.

LOL
Wait till you do that for hours and days when printing those negs!

[Lenny Eiger]

I shot my Crown Graphic with a 6x9cm roll film back today, hand-held. Is the only reason to shoot 4x5 cameras the 4x5 film? I am beginning to think so. I haven't gotten to loading up film & holders yet. The only 4x5 that I've shot is Quickloads and I have none left. And that was colour, so I didn't have to deal with processing.
...Vick

Vick,

IMO, the primary benefit of shooting large format film is calculating the exposure and development for a single image. It's true that the shooting of things with swings and tilts is really cool and I like the extended depth of field of LF lenses. However, the magic is being able to nail that exposure and development.

If the light changes in the middle of a roll of film, I end up pulling the roll out of the camera, wasting the rest of the roll. With 4x5 there's no need to average things out. You can calculate the development exactly for the type of process you are doing, whether its darkroom printing, alt process or scan and inkjet. No more blown-out highlights, no more negs that are just a bit too contrasty for what you were seeing, etc. It's magic.

If you get hooked on it, you can try rotary processing, which lets you work in light, and you can also go do something while the film is in the fix, etc. There are lots of great developers, from D-23 to Xtol and Pyro. They all have a different "feel" to them, and all have their proponents. I don't favor Rodinal, for example, but someone else may love it... All in all, its downright magic.

Given this, it takes a while to choose one's developer strategy, set up the times for N-3 to N+2 and get going. Once you get the development balanced, however, you will never want to go back...

That's my 2 cents,

Lenny

[MacReady]

Am I right in thinking I would need an RH-8 back to shoot 6x9 with a Super Graphic?

[Dan Fromm]

Am I right in thinking I would need an RH-8 back to shoot 6x9 with a Super Graphic?

I don't think so. I have a 2x3 Adapt-A-Roll 620 to fit a 4x5 camera. It, the 6x9 Calumet/Cambo C-2n roll holder and Sinar's 6x9 roll holder all slip in like a sheet film holder. The Sinar can also be held on with the Graflok sliders, don't know about the Calumet/Cambo. The AAR can't. There's also a slip-in type Toyo about which I know little.

Older Graphic roll holders (knob wind, gate ~ 82 wide, no pin rollers at the ends of the gate) for 4x5 cameras will attach just like the later RH-8 (lever wind, gate ~ 78 mm wide, pin rollers at the ends of the gate).

I'm not sure that Horseman 6x9 roll holder for 4x5 cameras will attach properly to a 4x5 Graflok back as made by Graflex. This because I know that their 6x9 roll holders for 2x3 cameras won't attach to 2x3 Graphics with Grafloks.

[BrianShaw]

Am I right in thinking I would need an RH-8 back to shoot 6x9 with a Super Graphic?

See the table on roll film backs: http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/accessories.html

[Drew Bedo]

Why not just pick up an RB 67. Its basically a 2x3 grafic.

[RHITMrB]

The biggest benefit I derive from large format is being able to use movements. If being able to use movements on rollfilm is your objective, then a view camera is what you need, unless you're willing to put up with the limited options for tilt/shift lenses in the 6x6/6x7 formats. Definitely not wimping out.

[ki6mf]

Go ahead and shoot MF on LF. It really depends on what your are trying to accomplish. the thing you might be sacrificing is the contrast control you get by varying development time for each individual piece of sheet film to alter contrast. You may be sacrificing optimizing tonal control for one image over another on the roll of film. In landscape this is a problem If shooting portraits in a studio when lighting is not changing its not a problem

[richardman]

Developing sheet film is no trouble at all if you use a Jobo. For B&W, if you use 2-bath Pyrocat, then it's the same for 35mm, roll film, or sheet film. Piece of cake.

[koh303]

This guy shoots all on 6X12 back on a graflex - http://212.179.113.235/mahsom/gallery.php?gid=23
Does amazing work.

[premortho]

I gotta go with the convenience of shooting one or two sheets of film in the afternoon, then developing them that same night. I've never found scenes where I would want to shoot eight exposures. I've never shot more than four with a 4X5, or two with a 5X7/8X10. But that's just me. Where I am, (the Adirondaks) it takes quite a while to drive than hike and set up at a new locale.

[richardman]

I have to say, before I did any 4x5, I was a bit scared of it. People talk about dust spots, hard to develop etc. What I found is that it's really liberating. I can switch B&W or colors, different speed. Loading film takes time, but not difficult. I have a Jobo 3502/2809n system and it's easy to develop. The negatives are so large and THICK, meaning that they are easy to scan on the V700 (sorry I do all my post on computer). The file size is manageable in Light Room. Just all in all, a rather pleasant experience...

[Peter York]

Yeah, I got a Grafmatic a while back. Gotta figure out how to load it and whether it actually works.

And I gotta try to develop 4x5 in a daylight tank. I can't yet fathom standing in the dark, slopping negatives for 10 minutes in developer, 30 sec in stop bath and another 8 minutes of fixing.

I use Gramatics for the ease of 6 shots per holder. If you only use 3 of those shots, you can still remove them from the holder for immediate development. I load the Grafmatics in a Harrison changing tent, which is fast and convenient. I also use the tent to load film into a Unicolor drum for daylight processing at the sink. I find this setup more convenient than 120 for B&W because the 4x5 is firmer and there are no hassles w.r.t backing paper and reel loading. With color, 120 is more convenient because I send it out to a lab.

Using a roll back is not sacrilege but that 4x5 sheet of film is sweet. Handheld is very reliable at fast shutter speeds, provided everything is calibrated properly. The wire-frame viewfinder works well after a bit of practice. Because older LF shutters are rather unreliable at fast speeds, this is one reason why I prefer a Speed over a Crown. The focal plane shutter can be dead-on at 1/1000 when in proper working order. Mine is consistent at about 1/890. I tend to shoot wide open for a lot of my handheld shots, so the faster the better.