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View Full Version : Cutting 11x14 film to fit 7x11 holders



Tin Can
5-Mar-2013, 15:15
I am in the process of getting my Eastman View No.2 7x11 ready to shoot. At first I did not know what I had, as I only had an 8x10 back for the camera. I have now obtained a nice OE 7x11 back for the camera. I will be ordering a Steve Hopf GG for it shortly. I have one 7x11 holder, which has printed on it 'Eastman Portrait Film Holder No.1, will fit Eastman View Camera Patent 1904, 1915 Form 15' and stamped TM. It does fit nicely. Everything I have is in very good condition. More holders are hopefully in the works, but I am also looking for holders.

Now I need film.

I have a few questions. Does anyone know if 11x14 Ilford or Kodak film cut exactly in half will fit a 7x11 Eastman holder? If you don't know that, do you know the exact dimensions of 11x14 film, so I could figure this out without first buying 11x14 film?

Another option is to cut down 7x17 film. Is Efke 7x17 the same sizing as 5x7 film on the 7 side?. Again what are the exact dimensions of 7x17 film?

If I cut down 7x17, I could have 7x11 and 5x7 film. I also shoot 5x7.

Is 11x14 X-Ray film the same exact size as standard film? I think it has rounded corners.

Is any one else shooting 7x11?

Most 7x11 discussions are from 2007.

I think that covers it, and I am open to any advice and suggestions.

Thanks!

Terry Christian
5-Mar-2013, 18:55
I'm not sure if film cut in half will fit the film holders of your desired size, but it should be mighty close. I routinely cut 8x10 photo paper and x-ray film in quarters to fit 4x5 holders, and sometimes I need to shave off an extra millimeter or so to make it fit the holder. I use a guillotine paper cutter, so it's easy.

Tin Can
5-Mar-2013, 19:11
Thanks Terry,

I know film sizes were adjusted to fit plate holders with film adapter/sheaths which made at least 4x5 film slightly smaller than actual 4x5 dimensions. I have looked and looked for actual film size info, and I see many others have also looked in vain before me. Seems to me to be a basic question of importance for many. I am very familiar with the differences in medium format roll film and 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheet film which are not the same size at all. Close, but not close enough.



I'm not sure if film cut in half will fit the film holders of your desired size, but it should be mighty close. I routinely cut 8x10 photo paper and x-ray film in quarters to fit 4x5 holders, and sometimes I need to shave off an extra millimeter or so to make it fit the holder. I use a guillotine paper cutter, so it's easy.

Jim Galli
5-Mar-2013, 19:18
I have a lovely original Eastman Improved No. 2 with both of the backs. I've never done it but I bought a bunch of film from "Eddie" who posts at this forum and I'm positive it was just 1114 cut in half. Make sure you mark the film so you know which way is emulsion up. Last time I used mine was when Eddie was in Tonopah and I gave him my 8X10 to shoot and I took out the 711. Put an 18" Verito on the front. Awesome combo.

Tin Can
5-Mar-2013, 19:31
Jim Galli, I have been meaning to reach out to you. The person who sold me my 7x11 back suggested you would know something. obviously you do, I will check with Eddie, if I can find him. I don't have a Verito, but I am sure I have something nice. I usually shoot portraits, but 7x11 would be a poor choice for that. imho Good advice to mark the film.

I have read quite a bit on your site. Lot's of good advice. I just did a quick look at your site and nothing 7x11 popped up. Can you point me to some images?

Thank you!






I have a lovely original Eastman Improved No. 2 with both of the backs. I've never done it but I bought a bunch of film from "Eddie" who posts at this forum and I'm positive it was just 1114 cut in half. Make sure you mark the film so you know which way is emulsion up. Last time I used mine was when Eddie was in Tonopah and I gave him my 8X10 to shoot and I took out the 711. Put an 18" Verito on the front. Awesome combo.

Oren Grad
5-Mar-2013, 20:12
IIRC the target for actual size of the larger sheet film formats is 1/16" less in each dimension than the nominal size - e.g., 10 15/16" x 13 15/16" rather than 11x14. If you chop a factory-cut nominal 11x14 sheet exactly in half you'd get a sheet 6 31/32" x 10 15/16", whereas a factory-cut 7x11" sheet would be 6 15/16" x 10 15/16". Of course, there are cutting tolerances on top of that, both at the factory and in your darkroom. But the point is that if your film holders are *just* large enough for a factory-cut 7x11 sheet, at least in theory you could end up with a tight squeeze if you try to cut an 11x14 sheet in half. More likely is that an exact 6 31/32" cut will fit. But it can be difficult to cut that precisely in the dark, so the greater risk is probably that you could chop an 11x14 sheet and get one half that will fit and another that's an eensy bit too large. And it can sometimes be difficult to cleanly shave off just a little bit, to fix the half that's too large.

In the end you just have to try it. Before you consume film, try cutting a piece of paper to as close to 6 31/32" x 10 15/16" as you can get, and see whether you can slide that into your holder easily. Or cut it to exactly 7x11, and if that goes in you should be fine.

Just in case you're not aware, Ilford does cut 7x11 film under its annual special order program. I use factory-cut HP5 Plus in my Eastman 7x11 holders.

Good luck!

Jim Galli
5-Mar-2013, 20:29
Jim Galli, I have been meaning to reach out to you. The person who sold me my 7x11 back suggested you would know something. obviously you do, I will check with Eddie, if I can find him. I don't have a Verito, but I am sure I have something nice. I usually shoot portraits, but 7x11 would be a poor choice for that. imho Good advice to mark the film.

I have read quite a bit on your site. Lot's of good advice. I just did a quick look at your site and nothing 7x11 popped up. Can you point me to some images?

Thank you!

Off the top of my head;

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Great_Race/27LaSalle.html

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Great_Race/Thomas_Flyer.html

I wrote a page about how I cut film in the dark (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum44/10481-bulk-lf-film-cutting-loading-aerial-roll-film.html) over at APUG some years ago. Nothing changed. Even if you did have to make a second cut it's quite do-able. I cut some film 3 times before it goes in the holders using this method, like 6.5X8.5. Still all that handling is not the best case.

Tin Can
5-Mar-2013, 20:39
Oren, Thanks for the good info. I was just sliding a 5x7 film into my holder and there is a lot of 'play'. The 1/16' less dimension is what I measured my new GG to be. I will need to sign up for 7x11 Ilford. Not sure who handles those sales. Kieth Canham does Kodak. Kodak prices are very high. I checked 11x14 at B&H and there is a vast difference between Ilford and Kodak. Kodak 11x14 at $40 a sheet vs Ilford at $7 a sheet. I guess I am a Ilford shooter. I was an Efke 2x3 shooter...too bad about them.

I do know cutting will be slow and inaccurate at first, but as a 30 year mechanical test lab, rat, I usually can get a precision job done.

Thanks!


IIRC the target for actual size of the larger sheet film formats is 1/16" less in each dimension than the nominal size - e.g., 10 15/16" x 13 15/16" rather than 11x14. If you chop a factory-cut nominal 11x14 sheet exactly in half you'd get a sheet 6 31/32" x 10 15/16", whereas a factory-cut 7x11" sheet would be 6 15/16" x 10 15/16". Of course, there are cutting tolerances on top of that, both at the factory and in your darkroom. But the point is that if your film holders are *just* large enough for a factory-cut 7x11 sheet, at least in theory you could end up with a tight squeeze if you try to cut an 11x14 sheet in half. More likely is that an exact 6 31/32" cut will fit. But it can be difficult to cut that precisely in the dark, so the greater risk is probably that you could chop an 11x14 sheet and get one half that will fit and another that's an eensy bit too large. And it can sometimes be difficult to cleanly shave off just a little bit, to fix the half that's too large.

In the end you just have to try it. Before you consume film, try cutting a piece of paper to as close to 6 31/32" x 10 15/16" as you can get, and see whether you can slide that into your holder easily. Or cut it to exactly 7x11, and if that goes in you should be fine.

Just in case you're not aware, Ilford does cut 7x11 film under its annual special order program. I use factory-cut HP5 Plus in my Eastman 7x11 holders.

Good luck!

Tin Can
5-Mar-2013, 21:03
Jim,

I had forgotten, I looked at those images some time ago. Great stuff. Since I didn't know 7x11 I may not have noticed on first viewing. I do like the format. I shot 35mm Pentax H3 all my life, took up digital 15 years ago and I am now happily learning all I can about LF film. One thing I have learned is I see the world with 24x36mm film eyes looking through a 50mm lens. I like 2x3, don't like 4x5 or 8x10. I have several 5x7 cameras I do like. so 7x11 here I come. At first I will match the LF to the 35mm lens equivalent to 50mm.

The best thing about taking up LF in retirement is affordable equipment, the worst part is the disappearing new film stock. I have almost all my film and slides from the 60's, I don't have all my digital. I expect this trend to continue.

Thanks for the image links!



Off the top of my head;

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Great_Race/27LaSalle.html

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Great_Race/Thomas_Flyer.html

I wrote a page about how I cut film in the dark (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum44/10481-bulk-lf-film-cutting-loading-aerial-roll-film.html) over at APUG some years ago. Nothing changed. Even if you did have to make a second cut it's quite do-able. I cut some film 3 times before it goes in the holders using this method, like 6.5X8.5. Still all that handling is not the best case.

Oren Grad
5-Mar-2013, 21:35
I will need to sign up for 7x11 Ilford. Not sure who handles those sales.

In recent years, Ilford/Harman has announced a specific order window in the spring, and provided a list of catalog numbers for the various sizes and a list of participating dealers. Orders have been cut over the summer and delivered in September. You can see the info for last year's program here:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/pressroom/article.asp?n=144

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20124301337541807.pdf


I do know cutting will be slow and inaccurate at first, but as a 30 year mechanical test lab, rat, I usually can get a precision job done.

Excellent - go have some fun! :)

Tin Can
5-Mar-2013, 21:47
Oren,

This is excellent news, and I am not too late for a change. Now I will need to post one of my other projects and consider another film size.

I will be getting in on these Ilford products!

Thank you!


In recent years, Ilford/Harman has announced a specific order window in the spring, and provided a list of catalog numbers for the various sizes and a list of participating dealers. Orders have been cut over the summer and delivered in September. You can see the info for last year's program here:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/pressroom/article.asp?n=144

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20124301337541807.pdf



Excellent - go have some fun! :)