Upgraded FIOS service

[Leigh]

They just processed by speed upgrade.

http://www.atwaterkent.info/Images/Speedtest.net.2013Mar03c75.png

Guess I can download dirty movies faster than I can watch 'em.

Test site: www.speedtest.net

- Leigh

[Preston]

Well, La-Dee-Da. :D

Sorry, Leigh, the devil made me do it. :D

I just checked my connection at work, and it's virtually the same as what you show. I know my home DSL is much slower: I'll check it later today, just for grins.

--P

[Steve Goldstein]

Maybe I should finally pull the trigger. Your speeds are both ~100x what DSL gives me. It's not that I really need it, we don't watch or download movies, but Verizon has been pestering me (again) to upgrade, and they're finally promising the same or lower cost, which is a change.

[Leigh]

Hi Preston,

I posted this because I'm rather amazed.

I was one of the designers of the world's fastest internet switch, at Bell Labs.
I remember thinking at the time "Who would ever need a switch with this capacity?".

Now I know. I do... ha ha ha. :D

- Leigh

[Oren Grad]

Still getting by with my creaky low-end-of-DSL line, despite my neighborhood having been one of the earliest to go live with FIOS. The local battery backup that Verizon provides with a FIOS install is ridiculous - 8 hours of clock time is pathetically inadequate as a replacement for copper lines that are always powered from the central office, barring a global catastrophe. And the people that Verizon keeps sending to try to nag me into changing are consistently unprepared even to discuss the issue intelligently, let alone to offer solutions.

[polyglot]

Huh. I'm doing OK with my 8Mbps... and just as well because I'm 300m on the wrong side of the boundary of Australia's NBN (Gbit fibre to the doorstep) rollout.

[Steve Goldstein]

Oren, you answered the one question I had. I'll stick with copper.

[jp]

I'd take it or a competitors equivalent if it were in my area. Despite needing battery to run, fiber is overall more reliable a technology than any other options. No surges to deal with, no complicated troubleshooting. Cell phones are the cheap communications contingency (but towers sometimes lose power too), and generators are the expensive contingency; you're going to need to run your computer network stuff in an outage too, like your wifi router, charge your laptop, etc..

[Oren Grad]

I'd take it or a competitors equivalent if it were in my area. Despite needing battery to run, fiber is overall more reliable a technology than any other options. No surges to deal with, no complicated troubleshooting. Cell phones are the cheap communications contingency (but towers sometimes lose power too), and generators are the expensive contingency; you're going to need to run your computer network stuff in an outage too, like your wifi router, charge your laptop, etc..

I don't need to run my computer network stuff in an outage. I have a UPS with enough juice to let me shut everything down gracefully in the minutes after the main power goes out. Beyond that my concern is solely for the lifeline function of a traditional land line. The recent occurrence of multiple weather events in which many people have lost power for days at a time underline the fact that extended power loss is not a remote contingency.

Investing in and maintaining a generator and fuel is a big deal. And yes, there are plenty of scenarios one can imagine in which the phone company central office is out too. There's no way to protect against every conceivable failure mode. But even granting that, I just don't think the extra speed of FIOS is an acceptable tradeoff against the loss of the always-on attribute of the old-style copper line.

What's more annoying still is that Verizon could easily address this by offering more a more robust local backup as an option for those who care about it, at extra cost if need be. If I could be confident of a week-long local backup I'd probably make the switch; it might be possible to persuade me to accept something shorter than that. But eight hours isn't even close.

One size doesn't fit all: you figure out your own points of most acute risk aversion, and you pick your tradeoffs to suit.

[Sal Santamaura]

...The local battery backup that Verizon provides with a FIOS install is ridiculous - 8 hours of clock time is pathetically inadequate as a replacement for copper lines that are always powered from the central office, barring a global catastrophe...


...you're going to need to run your computer network stuff in an outage too...


I don't need to run my computer network stuff in an outage...my concern is solely for the lifeline function of a traditional land line. The recent occurrence of multiple weather events in which many people have lost power for days at a time underline the fact that extended power loss is not a remote contingency...I just don't think the extra speed of FIOS is an acceptable tradeoff against the loss of the always-on attribute of the old-style copper line....If I could be confident of a week-long local backup I'd probably make the switch; it might be possible to persuade me to accept something shorter than that. But eight hours isn't even close...We're talking about our homes here, right? Unless one is running a business from home and thinks it "must go on" even when the power is out regionally for as long as weeks at a time, computers are utterly superfluous. The only really important capability in that situation is a phone line to reach first responders. Cell phones are worthless for this purpose. The towers are battery backed for a couple of hours, after which they go down. Fiber and cable systems all use utility power for distributed switches/amplifiers. They go down too, regardless of how long a home modem may be battery backed; eight hours or eight days at point of use makes no difference.

Copper land lines run to central offices where banks of batteries keep the voice network going until diesel generators can start. Those generators, which are tested and maintained regularly, keep running as long as fuel can be delivered to them. Short of an apocalypse that destroys transportation infrastructure, two or more weeks of regional power outage will be no problem for copper land line telephones. Just make sure you have at least one corded phone. :)

My home is located too far from the central office to permit DSL service. The approach I've taken is to maintain my copper land line for telephone and, when the Web got too bandwidth-intensive for dial up to remain practical, added Internet service to my cable account. It would not be surprising if half the profit Cox Communications earns from my payments each month is plowed into marketing its phone service to me, but I just keep putting those mailings into the recycle bin.

Horses for courses. There's no reason someone who has a "need" for FIOS' speed can't subscribe to that service while maintaining their reliable copper land line for voice.

[Oren Grad]

There's no reason someone who has a "need" for FIOS' speed can't subscribe to that service while maintaining their reliable copper land line for voice.

You can't have both. When you switch to FIOS, both voice and web service are changed - you're not allowed to keep voice over copper while adding web over fiber. I'm sure the main reason Verizon keeps nagging is that it's costly to maintain the copper infrastructure to a neighborhood to support a shrinking group of holdouts.

[Sal Santamaura]

You can't have both. When you switch to FIOS, both voice and web service are changed - you're not allowed to keep voice over copper while adding web over fiber. I'm sure the main reason Verizon keeps nagging is that it's costly to maintain the copper infrastructure to a neighborhood to support a shrinking group of holdouts.Oh - that's a situation which hadn't occurred to me. My copper land line is AT&T, so no such choice was necessary when adding cable Internet. If in your position and too far from a central office for DSL, I'd get the bandwidth any way I could that wasn't FIOS bundled with phone, such as satellite or wireless. It's good you could go with DSL. DSL's speed is, for most purposes, more than adequate.

I hope regulators continue to require that Verizon maintain the copper infrastructure as a matter of public safety and more consumers become aware of its advantage. Spread the word. :)

[Sal Santamaura]

Oren, I don't know whether its on line tool is accurate, but Comcast indicates cable Internet is available at your address. Another possible option should DSL prove inadequate.

[Oren Grad]

Oh - that's a situation which hadn't occurred to me. My copper land line is AT&T, so no such choice was necessary when adding cable Internet. If in your position and too far from a central office for DSL, I'd get the bandwidth any way I could that wasn't FIOS bundled with phone, such as satellite or wireless. It's good you could go with DSL. DSL's speed is, for most purposes, more than adequate.

In my neighborhood high-speed Internet is also available via cable. But I don't have cable, because I don't have a TV. Although in principle I could put in cable just to get high-speed Internet, the pricing is designed to strongly favor bundles with TV. And in any case, the local cable vendor has a service quality and customer support reputation that's generally worse than Verizon's. My DSL will do for now.

[Oren Grad]

Oren, I don't know whether its on line tool is accurate, but Comcast indicates cable internet is available at your address. Another possible option should DSL prove inadequate.

Messages crossed - see just above. :)

[jp]

The copper infrastructure is old; all paid for. the only cost is to maintain it. They are still maintaining the copper 99% of the way to your house even if you're not using it, just not the short drop from the street to your house.

The primary reason they pull the copper when you sign up for FIOS is they don't have to let competitors use the fiber like they do for copper. They remove a competitive option each and every time someone orders FIOS.

[Oren Grad]

The copper infrastructure is old; all paid for. the only cost is to maintain it. They are still maintaining the copper 99% of the way to your house even if you're not using it, just not the short drop from the street to your house.

Understood, but presumably once everyone in a neighborhood has converted they don't have to do even that - they should be able to turn off an entire circuit from the central office.


The primary reason they pull the copper when you sign up for FIOS is they don't have to let competitors use the fiber like they do for copper. They remove a competitive option each and every time someone orders FIOS.

Good point - the regulatory constraints are not even-handed in that respect.

[Larry Gebhardt]

I have comcast cable. I had it for phone, internet, and a locals package for TV until last week when I had the phone company come and install plain copper back to the house. I did this for a few reasons, but mainly I wanted a telephone line that was more reliable when the power goes out for 911 service. Comcast was also expensive for phone, considering we don't ever use the home phone for much (goes to the machine without ringing, and outgoing we use the cell phone). In the process I bought my own cable modem to drop the rental fee, which will have a payback period of about a year. The surprising thing is my download speeds went from around 5 to 6MBps to 8 to 11MBs with no change in service level. Still not like the FIOS numbers, but noticeable. I would drop the TV part as well, but then then internet charge goes up by enough that the TV is only about $10 a month. Since no one watches it most of the year we may still drop it.

[Sal Santamaura]

...I had the phone company come and install plain copper back to the house. I did this for a few reasons, but mainly I wanted a telephone line that was more reliable when the power goes out for 911 service...Great move. I see your local land line provider is Verizon too. Spread the word so as many consumers as possible will understand and do the same. Also encourage them to keep pressure on New Hampshire's regulators not to relax requirements.

Verizon abandoned any pretense of caring about copper in the northern area of New Hampshire where I'll be moving in a few years. It sold that part of its operations to Fairpoint. As best I can tell, Fairpoint is maintaining the system to high standards despite financial difficulties. It's very important that state regulations which mandate this not be weakened.

[paulr]

I'm approaching my 5th day of no phone/dsl in Brooklyn. It just went out on thursday, and they estimated it would be fixed sometime today. Possibly knocked out by street work ... I didn't even have a hiccup during the hurricane. The real joke is that I lost my cell phone upstate this weekend. Right now my only contact with the world is by poaching a neighbor's wifi, which can only be done from the kitchen.

This has me thinking about cable, which has its own caveats and expenses, but much better than the 4.5 megabits per second that I've been getting from dsl.

Right now fios isn't available in my neighborhood. Even if it were, I'd be put off by the cost. It looks like a decent deal only if you want the full tv package, which I don't.

[Oren Grad]

This has me thinking about cable, which has its own caveats and expenses, but much better than the 4.5 megabits per second that I've been getting from dsl.

Heh... my DSL gives me ~750-800 kbps download and about 300 kbps upload. It's not a question of electing a different service tier - the line here just won't support anything faster; been there with Verizon tech support, tried that. It would be nice to have something faster but it's adequate as is, because I don't feel much urge to consume streaming video.

FIOS pricing isn't particularly an issue here; the offers I've been getting would make it barely more expensive than what I'm paying for DSL, at least for the base level of FIOS bandwidth.

Local service quality, options and pricing vary all over the map, over all the map. Add in varying preferences and it's no surprise that people end up in many different places.

Hope you get your land line back ASAP...

[Nathan Potter]

Hmm, I seem to get 10MB/s download and 1 MB/s upload from AT&T. That's pretty pitiful in this day and age and in a very computer saavy city.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.