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ryanmills
27-Feb-2013, 18:52
If I don't want to mix up the whole bag is it 1 table spoon for each liter of water?

vinny
27-Feb-2013, 19:36
you can't mix dry chemicals like that. must use whole bag since things settle out and there's no guarantee you're getting equal amounts by using partial quantities.

C_Remington
27-Feb-2013, 19:37
That's liquid chemicals r 4

ryanmills
27-Feb-2013, 22:05
then what the heck does someone mix 5 gallons of hypo and store it in :/

ac12
27-Feb-2013, 22:34
You should not get large size packages.
I only buy 1 gallon size packages, so my max size bottle is 1 gal.

Even in high school yearbook/newspaper and photo classes, we did not use fixer fast enough to mix up 5 gallons of the stuff at one time.

You could mix it at double strength, in 2-1/2 gal of water in a 5 gal plastic paint bucket. Store it in 1 gal bottles. Then when you use it you dilute it 1:1.
The problem you may have is as the concentration goes up, it gets harder to disolve the chemicals in the water. We used to cheat by using hot water, to disolve the chemicals easier, but some chemicals do not like to be mixed with hot water. Also higher concentrations some chemicals percipitate out (undisolve), and you have to mix up the chemicals again to get it back into solution before you use it. Such a pain.

ryanmills
27-Feb-2013, 23:14
I guess i never thought about it, I got the smallest package B&H had to just try it, never expected to need a 55 gallon drum to mix it all :/

guess I will have to look into something else.

ac12
28-Feb-2013, 00:03
Chalk it up to experience.
For any powder chemicals, you have to be aware of the volume it is packaged to mix.

Your other option is liquid fixer where you can measure off the amount you want to mix.
So rather than a full gallon you can mix up 1/2 gal.
I use mostly liquid chemicals for that reason, it is easier to mix up smaller batches.

Doremus Scudder
28-Feb-2013, 03:54
Ryan,

You don't mention specifically what you are trying to mix. "Hypo" could mean a couple of things. Strictly, it should refer only to the chemical sodium thiosulfate, a basic ingredient in many fixers. However, many use the term generally to refer to many kinds of fixers with many different formulations.

So, if you have a packaged powdered fixer, like Kodak Fixer for example, you have a hardening fixer with lots of other things in it besides sodium thiosulfate. These you should mix in their entirety all at one time, since it is difficult to be sure all the different ingredients will end up being in the right proportion otherwise.

If this is the case, then just mix according to the directions. You may need several bottles to keep it all in. Read the directions carefully and note the lifespan of the fix. You may be able to use up most of it before it goes bad, especially if you store it in good airtight containers.

If, however, you really have bought only the chemical sodium thiosulfate, then you must get at least one or two other chemicals to mix with it to make a fixing bath. I imagine that this is not the case, but if so, do a search on basic fixer recipes to get an idea.

FWIW, I like to buy rapid fixers, which come in liquid concentrates. One pays a bit more in shipping, since these are heavier than powders, but one can mix exactly the amount one needs from the concentrate. Lifespan is fairly long too.

Best,

Doremus

Sevo
28-Feb-2013, 04:10
What "hypo"? The product called Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent, a hypo (sodium thiosulfate) containing ready made fixer, or do you want to mix a fixer from separate component chemicals?

If the latter, read your chemistry text book and attend chemistry classes - that seems to be too much beyond your competence for mere learning by doing without getting killed in an explosion.

If it should be some ready-made product, you must mix it all - you cannot part out powder mixtures as these aren't homogeneous across the bag and critical low concentration components like stabilizers, activators and inhibitors may end up all in one part.

If you bought a five gallon pack of fixer, get a five gallon canister, or (cheaper) a smaller pack - I don't know of a powder base fixer that can be used to make a concentrate stock (the liquid concentrate fixers I know use different acids to prevent crystallization).

Hypo clearing agent is supposed to be prepared as a 1:4 stock solution, so you'll be fine with a gallon bottle - your five gallon pack would be stirred into one gallon water, and one part stock later mixed with four parts water to form a working solution.

vinny
28-Feb-2013, 05:12
Guys, afaik, kodak doesn't sell raw hypo ingedients so i think he means bagged fixer. Not sure why the remainder of my post needs to be repeated.

Sevo
28-Feb-2013, 05:20
Guys, afaik, kodak doesn't sell raw hypo ingedients

It is hard to keep track with the decline of Kodak, but in the past they did sell photo chemicals individually. But at least in Europe they do not seem to have sold sodium thiosulfate in anything as small as "an amount to make 5 gallons".


so i think he means bagged fixer.

I think it is more likely he means bagged Hypo Clearing Agent, the only thing Kodak seems to label "Hypo" on the bag - somebody with so little chemical background as to consider a tea spoon a suitable measure is quite unlikely to translate a inscription "Rapid Fixer" to "Hypo".

cowanw
28-Feb-2013, 08:39
I think it is more likely he means bagged Hypo Clearing Agent, the only thing Kodak seems to label "Hypo" on the bag - somebody with so little chemical background as to consider a tea spoon a suitable measure is quite unlikely to translate a inscription "Rapid Fixer" to "Hypo".

Patrick "Gadget" Gainer would have argued with your distain of the teaspoon as a photograaphic measure.
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?86347-Patrick-Gainer
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/65010-teaspoon-measuring.html

Terry Christian
28-Feb-2013, 09:01
First, "hypo" never means hypo clearing agent. "Hypo" = fixer, so hypo clearing agent is an agent that help to clear remaining fixer from film and paper.

If you have a bag that makes 5 liters once diluted, Freestyle (and no doubt other companies too) makes a 5 liter plastic bottle that would be perfect. Or, mix it up thoroughly in a plastic bucket, and divide it up into a repurposed & relabelled gallon milk jug for storage, plus a smaller container for the approximate 1 L that you'll be using right away. Reuse it until it exhausts, then dole out more from the milk jug and repeat.

Sevo
28-Feb-2013, 11:03
First, "hypo" never means hypo clearing agent. "Hypo" = fixer, so hypo clearing agent is an agent that help to clear remaining fixer from film and paper.

If you have a bag that makes 5 liters once diluted, Freestyle (and no doubt other companies too) makes a 5 liter plastic bottle that would be perfect.


The original poster claimed he had a 5 gallon bag. There probably are bottles as big as that, but it really is a size (and weight) you'd better handle with a bottom valve canister. And the original poster may not know that a old vernacular meaning of "hypo" is "sodium thiosulfate" (chemically hyposulfite is not thiosulfate - a difference known since the 19th century). He estimated that he'd need a teaspoonful of powder to make a litre - a rather small volume that does not sound like fixer (all fixer bags I ever used contained more like a cup or two of powder per litre), but more like hypo clearing agent.

John Kasaian
28-Feb-2013, 11:14
I just mixed of an envelope of Kodak Hypo Clear. The stock solution fits into a 1 gallon jug. Dilute the stock solution 1:4 for the working solution, which would, if you use it all at once equal to 5 gallons. Just dilute what you need when you need it. The stock solution keeps for 3 months.
I hope this helps!

Terry Christian
28-Feb-2013, 11:24
True, Sevo. That's why I posted my clarification. And you're right about his probably meaning hypo-clear instead of fixer.

E. von Hoegh
28-Feb-2013, 11:33
True, Sevo. That's why I posted my clarification. And you're right about his probably meaning hypo-clear instead of fixer.

Let's hope the OP isn't trying to fix film in it.

Doremus Scudder
28-Feb-2013, 12:58
I didn't even stop to think that the OP might have a bag of Kodak Hypo-Clearing Agent when he mentioned "hypo."

Ryan,

I hope you're paying attention to this, because it is basic and important.

"Hypo" is an old name for the main component in many fixers, sodium thiosulfite. Earlier it used to be called (erroneously) hyposulfite, hence the name. Many people still use the term "hypo" for sodium thiosulfite, as in "plain hypo fixer" or the like. However, the term is confusing and we should really just ditch it.

Many people buy photo chemicals, including sodium thiosulfite, with which they mix their own photochemicals. Fixer recipes include sodium thiosulfate (hypo) and, depending on the exact formula, other chemicals for preservatives, pH buffering/balancing, hardening, etc., etc. One of the most common of these home-made fixers is the "plain hypo" fixer mentioned above, which contains only sodium thiosulfite and sodium sulfite. It is often used before toning. If doubt you have a bag of sodium thiosulfite, since no one would ever package it 5-gallon mixes.

Kodak makes a lot of pre-mixed packaged photo chemicals. Among those are "Kodak Fixer" which comes in a yellow foil-lined bag and contains sodium thiosulfite plus many other chemicals. It is an all-purpose fixer for film and paper. This is what I though you had when I answered previously.

Kodak also makes a product called "Hypo-Clearing Agent." It is a washing aid for films and papers and is meant to be used after fixing and rinsing and before the final wash. It speeds up washing. If this is what you have, you need to be aware that it is not fixer (I'm sure you are, but since the subject has been broached...).

If you have the Kodak Fixer, just get yourself a 5-gallon paint bucket (clean) and, using your other graduates, fill it up using one of your smaller graduates, making marks along the way with a sharp tool for 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 gallons. Voilá, you've just made yourself a 5-gallon graduate. Mix your fix according to package directions and then divide it into smaller bottles for storage. Use as much as you can before the expiration date (check the package for lifespan of the chemical after mixing).

If you have Hypo-Clearing Agent, then, in contrast to what many say, I believe you can get away with mixing this one-shot from the powder. It is largely just sodium sulfite with a bit of metabisulfite and the exact amount is not so critical. I've done this in the past with good results. Use a level Tablespoon of powder for one liter of solution. I would store the remaining powder in a glass container with a well-sealing lid and simply use it that way, one-shot, as needed. Just don't use it to fix film ;) it's a wash-aid.

I hope this clarifies things a bit.

Doremus

ryanmills
28-Feb-2013, 14:06
lol wow... i meant hypo as in hypo clear. All my other chems are liquid and never really gave any thought to powered chems and mixing them. For what its worth im only 31, and up until a week ago had never shoot black and white film let alone developed. So im just learning things on the fly. I got the hypo clear just because I saw it in an example. I'm going to have to find a simpler way to deal with it thou. I'm having a hell of a time getting the antihalation layer off TriX320. I might just mix it up in a gallon judge and dilute as needed.

Greg Davis
28-Feb-2013, 14:25
The hypo clear should be mixed to a one gallon concentrate that is then diluted 1 part concentrate to 4 parts water just before use. So you only need a one gallon bottle.

Brian C. Miller
28-Feb-2013, 14:26
For all practical purposes, hypo clear formulas last a really, really long time. However, if you followed the directions mixing it, then you mixed up a "stock" solution, from which you'll use just enough for your session, 1 part stock to 4 parts water. Hypo clear promotes clearing out the fixer, but that's it. Otherwise you just need to do a soak and dump to get out other things like residual dyes.

E. von Hoegh
28-Feb-2013, 15:10
lol wow... i meant hypo as in hypo clear. All my other chems are liquid and never really gave any thought to powered chems and mixing them. For what its worth im only 31, and up until a week ago had never shoot black and white film let alone developed. So im just learning things on the fly. I got the hypo clear just because I saw it in an example. I'm going to have to find a simpler way to deal with it thou. I'm having a @#!*% of a time getting the antihalation layer off TriX320. I might just mix it up in a gallon judge and dilute as needed.

How long and at what temperature are you fixing it?

Developing film may seem daunting, but it really is simple. Just proceed carefully and methodically, step by step. Keeping notes can be very valuable, on the taking-picture end as well as the darkroom end.

Doremus Scudder
28-Feb-2013, 15:17
Developing film may seem daunting, but it really is simple. Just proceed carefully and methodically, step by step. Keeping notes can be very valuable, on the taking-picture end as well as the darkroom end.

Ryan,

Better advice you will rarely get. Get yourself a good reference for black-and-white processing and spend some cozy evenings with it. And don't stop asking questions here.

And, if you prefer, mixing the hypo-clearing agent as a one-gallon stock solution (as Kodak recommends) is a fine way to use it. Read directions, follow instructions and before you know it, you'll be the one supplying the answers.

Best,

Doremus

John Kasaian
28-Feb-2013, 15:47
lol wow... i meant hypo as in hypo clear. All my other chems are liquid and never really gave any thought to powered chems and mixing them. For what its worth im only 31, and up until a week ago had never shoot black and white film let alone developed. So im just learning things on the fly. I got the hypo clear just because I saw it in an example. I'm going to have to find a simpler way to deal with it thou. I'm having a hell of a time getting the antihalation layer off TriX320. I might just mix it up in a gallon judge and dilute as needed.

I've never had a probem getting the anti halation off Kodak film. I've never had a problem with leaving it on and letting it wash away along with the chemicals either.
Try to keep things simple:)

When you're teaching yourself, you're apt to waste a lot of film so I suggest using a less costly film than Kodak. Arista .edu Ultra (Fomapan) will save you some serious $$ Even Ilford is less costly than Kodak and is more kindly with reciprocity than Arista/Foma

I never use Stop chemistry with film---plain water works just fine. One less chemical to mix & store (until you start printing)

Stick with a bullet proof developer such as D-76 or the generic equivalent. Futzing around with exotic chemistry is fun but when you're starting out you'll be introducing even more ways to screw things up so its OK to cheat and cut the cards in your favor.

Hypo clear shortens wash time and helps a bit (a little bit) with preservation.
Cheers!

Roger Cole
28-Feb-2013, 16:03
You can also get liquid concentrate wash aids if you prefer them, or mix your own from just sodium sulfite and water as you need it. The first costs a bit more but is still cheap, the second is even cheaper than Kodak HCA.

ryanmills
28-Feb-2013, 19:39
Thanks everyone for your input. At this point the only issues im having is the bloody annihilation layer. I'm using ilford rapid fix at 1:4 at 68 degrees for 4 mins and its still leaving a little bit. Its not much but just a really slight purple tint. I even let a neg sit under running water for 4-5 mins and it made no difference. I even prewashed for a min before the dev. Maybe I need a longer wash but that stuff is stubborn. I will create a different thread for that issue thou.

Jim Andrada
1-Mar-2013, 01:52
Hi Ryan

To be more accurate, it's an anti-halation layer as in a layer on the back of the film that is there to prevent reflections of highlights from bouncing back through the film base and making halos around your highlights. While I know you would like to annihilate it, it's better to refer to it by its real name. It is a very good thing to have on the film. I've never had any problem with it washing off in normal processing in the maybe 50 or 60 years I've been using Tri-X, so I'm at a loss to explain your problem with it. You might try a longer pre-soak and or more agitation in the pre-soak and wash cycles.

Roger Cole
1-Mar-2013, 01:56
It tends to come out with extensive fixing and washing. Are you using the wash aid (hypo clear you asked about) with film, or just paper? It's not really needed for film, just fiber based paper, but can help with getting rid of this extra dye as well as a better wash.

Sevo
1-Mar-2013, 02:38
Hi Ryan

To be more accurate, it's an anti-halation layer as in a layer on the back of the film

Maybe. However, anti-halation layer dyes tend to wash out very easily (come out entirely in the pre-soak or developer), and are usually grey, dark blue or green. The pink stain that is so hard to get rid of in many types of Kodak film (in particular T-Max and new Tri-X) seems to be in the actual emulsion layer, and is more likely to be a sensitizer than anti-halation related.

Doremus Scudder
1-Mar-2013, 02:54
... anti-halation layer dyes tend to was out very easily (come out entirely in the pre-soak or developer), and are usually grey, dark blue or green. The pink stain that is so hard to get rid of in many types of Kodak film (in particular T-Max and new Tri-X) seems to be in the actual emulsion layer, and is more likely to be a sensitizer than anti-halation related.

Exactly.

There is a sticky thread on APUG on removing the pink tinge that you might want to take a look at.

Since film is on a waterproof base, it doesn't hurt to fix and wash it a bit longer. Extending these times a bit and using the hypo clear should get rid of the pink tinge. I use both Tri-X and TMY and just fix longer to get rid of the pink.

If there's a bit left, it doesn't really matter. It won't affect the printing of the negative.

Best

sergiob
9-Mar-2013, 07:07
You are addressing a lot of issues here. The magenta cast in some negatives comes off very easily provided you wash well your negatives. If your negs are pink after washing I would make sure I am giving my film enough was time. I make 6 changes of water of 5 minutes each, as described in R Lambrechts book, and no casts at all. I use 2 rapid fixers in sequenxe for film, but for paper I use 2 plain Thiosulfate baths in sequence and for hypoclear I use plain sodium sulfite, and no acid in the stop bath, just plain water. Keeping the acid out of the fiber base paper processing is a good thing.