Schneider reduces available LF lenses?

[Arne Croell]

I just visited the Schneider-Kreuznach web site at http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/en/homepage/; this is the one in Germany, not the the US subsidiary called Schneideroptics (https://www.schneideroptics.com/). For one, it has a totally new flashy design, celebrating their 100 year anniversary, but I also checked their list of analog LF lenses (http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/en/photo-imaging/product-field/photo-lenses/products/large-format-lenses/analog-lenses/) and it showed a much reduced list of lenses! Completely gone are the XXL Fine-Art series, the Macro-Symmars, and the Apo-Tele-Xenars (only the older 250mm Tele-Xenar is still listed). In the Super-Angulon XL series, the 38mm and the 47mm are gone and in the Apo-Symmar L series the 480mm is gone. I haven't been able to find any LF enlarging lenses on the new site anymore - a search for Componon brought up only their shorter focal lengths "industry" versions. It appears that they are significantly culling their LF lens lines :-(

PS I also was not able to find their previous web site pages with the information (pdf's) on older lenses.

[John NYC]

Not really surprising. No one here ever recommends going out and buying a new $2,000 lens instead of picking up a comparable almost new one here for $350. There really isn't much money to be made in that game at this point. Better to move their R&D to digital designs.

[IanG]

Some of the lenses dropped probably haven't been made for some time. It's not surprising as LF sales must be greatly reduced these days, one only has to think how long the last batch of Xenars lasted before they were remaindered 10 or 12 years ago.

There's a glut of excellent secondhand LF lenses so new sales must be very difficult.

Ian

[Arne Croell]

Not really surprising. No one here ever recommends going out and buying a new $2,000 lens instead of picking up a comparable almost new one here for $350. There really isn't much money to be made in that game at this point. Better to move their R&D to digital designs.
I understand your point, but shouldn't they have cut the more ubiquitous ones then, like the 210mm Apo-Symmar L - there are certainly tons of standard 210's and similar lenses floating around for nearly nothing? They did, however, cut the more interesting extreme versions, where the used market is actually not that big. And R&D is not a point anymore in the existing lens lines. But I guess this trend is based on their sales numbers, as you imply.

[Dan Fromm]

Arne, are you sure?

https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=166

https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=168

https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=165

https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=167

https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=164

I wouldn't be surprised if the US site lags the mothership, but the new German site is such a disaster that I'm not sure whether to believe it.

Cheers,

Dan

[Arne Croell]

Dan, since I have not talked with them, I am not completely sure. They might still have inventory of the lenses even though they don't list them anymore. However, the US Schneideroptics site does lag significantly, I remember that they still showed the Super-Symmar HM years after it was discontinued and had disappeared from the German site. I agree that their new German site is a disaster...

[Peter Yeti]

Arne,

Yes, they must have changed their web site very recently and the new one is awful. Also noticed that all the documentation for their older lenses is gone now.:( I only was waiting for the news that they'd stop LF lens production entirely since it basically has disappeared in professional photography. I'm still surprised that only the more exotic lenses vanished. Anyway, easiest way to find out is actually to call their service department, very nice and helpful usually. Hope you'll let us know the answer if you do.

[Daniel Stone]

I'm not surprised either, honestly. LF has been hammered into almost complete oblivion by digital, I don't know of (1) pro here in LA who is actively shooting even 4x5 for commercial work anymore, just digital. Makes sense really, clients have become more "last-minute" than before it seems, and with that, rushed deadlines and pressure on getting exactly what they want really lends itself to digital and shooting tethered to a big monitor

Not to mention the great cost savings of buying 2nd hand from reputable dealers such as KEH, or from individuals here and elsewhere on the internet.

I applaud Schneider for remaining in the game this long, same with Rodenstock. They have moved to digital lenses for MFDB's, and seem to be quite successful with those product lines. Just wish Nikon and Fuji could have stayed in the LF game a bit longer than they did...

[Drew Wiley]

Fuji is still fully in the game. Not much of it is currently being imported simply because the dollar is weak against the yen.
And a few classic Fuji lenses were discontinued a couple decades back due to special glass issues. But the problem for all
these guys is the competition from the used market. If LF lenses are well cared for, they last a long, long time. And at the
moment, the premium seems to be upon lightwt field lenses, not big clunker studio plasmats. But I understand that "need it
yesterday" mentality which is driving the digital transition in studios. Glad I'm not in that game.

[Sal Santamaura]

Arne, are you sure?...I wouldn't be surprised if the US site lags the mothership, but the new German site is such a disaster that I'm not sure whether to believe it...I think it lags in running out of inventory after discontinuations and its Web site reflects that. Exactly six years ago this month I purchased a brand new 270mm G-Claron from Jim at Midwest, which he obtained for me from the US distributor. I'd been poking around the schneideroptics.com pages and found that there was one left in stock. It had probably been manufactured quite a few years earlier.

[David Lindquist]

Also on February 22 Bob Salomon reported (under "Affordable less desirable alternative to Aero Ektar, does it exist?") that the 35, 45 and 55 mm Rodenstock Apo Grandagons were just discontinued. He also commented on February 17 under "Old Style Linhof Quicksocket Question" that Copal announced last year that they will stop making shutters. It's not clear to me if this has happened yet. In any case it seems to me this will really have a negative impact on the production of new large format lenses.
David

[Peter Yeti]

If Copal stops shutter production, this WILL be the end of LF lens production in my opinion. Aren't they the last existing manufacturer of LF shutters? This could explain why Schneider discontinues the special lenses first. This way they could keep the production up for the more common ones a little longer.

[Sevo]

If Copal stops shutter production, this WILL be the end of LF lens production in my opinion. Aren't they the last existing manufacturer of LF shutters?

DHW make the Rollei electronic shutter in size 0 and 1 (which need a external controller device), and also presented a USB (PC/tablet/smartphone) controlled size 0 version at the last Photokina. I doubt that anybody still makes a shutter bigger than size 2 (the big Compurs and Compounds around seem to be new-old stock from the seventies or even sixties). Copal quitting would doubtlessly leave a #2 gap - which hopefully might be big enough for DHW to add another size.

[IanG]

Rodenstock have their own shutter the eShutter (http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/en/main/news/eshutter/) which replaces a Copal #0.

There's also Meles Griot shutters (https://www.cvimellesgriot.com/Products/ExtremeService-Shutters.aspx) although expensive and not at this time compatible.

Ian

[Jerry Flynn]

Not an attempt to highjack the thread, but another example of what various posters have noted - I visited the Sinar website recently and they no longer list the f2 as an available camera, only the P2 as far as traditional film cameras are concerned. The list digital options P3, etc.

This is just, I believe, a reflection of the fact that the use of film among professionals (their target market) has been rapidly decreasing and also the large amount of used Sinar equipment available in the market.

Similar, I think to Schneider's position.

[John NYC]

Not an attempt to highjack the thread, but another example of what various posters have noted - I visited the Sinar website recently and they no longer list the f2 as an available camera, only the P2 as far as traditional film cameras are concerned. The list digital options P3, etc.

This is just, I believe, a reflection of the fact that the use of film among professionals (their target market) has been rapidly decreasing and also the large amount of used Sinar equipment available in the market.

Similar, I think to Schneider's position.

Yes. I just got a used but truly like-new F2. Went to the Sinar website to look at available add-ons and noticed the camera is gone also. I love this camera so far! Shame it isn't made now. But hard to image they are actually selling any new cameras at this point.

[Sevo]

. Copal quitting would doubtlessly leave a #2 gap

Nonsense, #3 it would be - they haven't had #2 for ages.

[John Kasaian]

Is any of this a surprise, really?:rolleyes:

[Arne Croell]

I contacted Schneider, and they confirmed that the lens lines and types I mentioned in my original post will be discontinued by the end of this year. They still have remaining stock, though. The archive section of their web site is currently being adapted to the new design and will be back up again.

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Hello Arne
Thanks for the information.
The 150 mm Componon-S enlarger lens is still there, but, as you mentioned, in the new SK web site, not at the place you would expect to find it, i.e. outside the 'photography' section, in a strange section (at least, strange to people doing film photography since the last 50 years ..) named 'industrial solutions .. with leica thread mount'

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/industrial-solutions/objektive-und-zubehoer/produkte/unifoc-objektive/objektive-mit-leica-gewinde/componon-s-56150/

No componon lenses in focal lengths longer that 150 mm in this section, but my understanding is they were already discontinued before the recent redesign of SK's web site.

[Arne Croell]

Hello Arne
Thanks for the information.
The 150 mm Componon-S enlarger lens is still there, but, as you mentioned, in the new SK web site, not at the place you would expect to find it, i.e. outside the 'photography' section, in a strange section (at least, strange to people doing film photography since the last 50 years ..) named 'industrial solutions .. with leica thread mount'

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/industrial-solutions/objektive-und-zubehoer/produkte/unifoc-objektive/objektive-mit-leica-gewinde/componon-s-56150/

No componon lenses in focal lengths longer that 150 mm in this section, but my understanding is they were already discontinued before the recent redesign of SK's web site.

Hi Emmanuel,

plus the 150mm Componon-S does not even have a "Leica thread", it is 50x0.75mm according to their own datasheet. Unfortunately the Componon-S is the only option in 150mm now, as the Apo-Componons now end at 90mm. Similar to Rodenstock, where the 150mm Rodagon is still available, but not the Apo-Rodagon N, they discontinued the better corrected lens in this focal length.

Arne

[EdSawyer]

True, but they are still available on the secondary (used) market. (150 apo componon, 150 apo rodagon). Which is where most people buy enlarging lenses anyway... there's a glut of them, super cheaply priced usually, compared to when they were available new.