4x5 processing method: practical?

[Dean Taylor]

hello--



A photographer has posted a YT video explaining a method of 4x5 processing.

In it, he takes the exposed 4x5 film and curls it, longways--emulsion in, of course--and secures it with a type of rubber band. The ends of the curl do not touch, allowing chemical bath to reach the emulsion. He may then place 4 of these...'curls' into a Paterson System 4 tank for agitation.



My admittedly inexperienced analysis wants to conclude that for 4x5 film, it is, indeed, superior to tray processing--avoiding scratches, splashes and spills, etc. But what do you pros think? Is it, in fact, a trade off (something lost/something gained)?



Thank you!

Dean

[welly]

Sounds like the taco method (http://www.flickr.com/photos/digi-film/sets/72157627864733730/) to me.

[Nathan Potter]

It is the "taco" method and can be used very successfully. The only time I used it, years ago, was one taco at a time in a vertical tube with a cap on the bottom and in a complete darkroom. Used PVC pipe with a removable cap on the top (home built) for 8X10 film (Tech pan). Worked fine but there are other embodiments of the taco method. Can be twirled in a tray of course and used in some commercial tanks. I used ordinary rubber bands to contain the taco.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Jim Jones]

The anti-halation coating on the backs of some films may not be completely removed underneath the rubber bands in the taco method.

[ShawnHoke]

I've used the taco method with great results on 4x5 film. Very easy as long as your Paterson tank is tall enough.

[ScottPhotoCo]

I just spent a few $ and got the MOD45. Fits perfectly in the Paterson tank and up to 6 sheets of 4x5 at a time.

Tim
www.ScottPhoto.co

[Dean Taylor]

a Visqueen darkroom...

thank you, LFP community, for sharing your expertise! Much to consider here, food for thought...

At any rate--and, while I am assimilating this, I came up with another idea (however--and, as there is nothing new under the sun--chances are that the 'theory' has been applied by someone else.). And, that is: a 'darkroom' in the apartment.

Several photographers (here and at photo.net and APUG) wrote of tray processing for 4x5. It occurred to me that using a change bag arrangement to load the Riteways is quite...constricting, to say the least. Also, to utilize trays would necessitate a bona fide darkroom--I am fairly certain that getting my apartment pitch black would be difficult at best, what with the site lighting on all night at the property, etc.

I thought it might be appropriate to buy a camper's tent and put every thing inside--a small table, trays, Riteways, 4x5 film, chemicals, etc.--and, then cover it with a darker material. But, (and, following Ockham), why not, I mused, then delete the camper's tent and just purchase a roll of Visqueen*, cut off a 12x12 foot piece and hang it from a swag hook on the ceiling ('pinch off' a handful at the center and hang).

I know for a fact that it would enable a pitch-black environment within (without hassling with window covering, etc.), with plenty of room to work inside--whether loading Riteways, tray processing, etc.

Has anyone tried this--it's inexpensive, collapsible (I can fold it and stow it away in a kitchen drawer), lightproof, as roomy as I need it to be.

Best,

Dean

*Visqueen: heavy black plastic used at construction sites for covering material, etc.

(addendum: apartments here designed with meager bathroom space)

[Light Guru]

I am fairly certain that getting my apartment pitch black would be difficult at best

You don't need to do it to your entire apartment just one small room like the bathroom.


I thought it might be appropriate to buy a camper's tent and put every thing inside--a small table, trays, Riteways, 4x5 film, chemicals, etc.--and, then cover it with a darker material. But, (and, following Ockham), why not, I mused, then delete the camper's tent and just purchase a roll of Visqueen*, cut off a 12x12 foot piece and hang it from a swag hook on the ceiling ('pinch off' a handful at the center and hang)

Sounds like a LOT more work then just blocking out the light in a bathroom.


I can fold it and stow it away in a kitchen drawer

Doubtful you fan fit a camping tent into a kitchen drawer.

If you have a window in the bathroom just cover it with a peace of black visqueen taped up with painters tape so it is easy to remove. And put a towel over the bottom of the bathroom door.

[ShawnHoke]

Dean, I use our small bathroom for tray developing (and contact printing) of 4x5 and even 8x10. I just lay the trays out in the tub. Not ideal, but works well.

Most bathrooms are easy to make light tight even if they have a window.

There's a bit of clean up afterwards to transform it back into a bathroom without pissing my wife off, but it's very doable.

Good luck!

[Leonard Evens]

The MOD45 processor looks pretty neat.

But it does take 1 litre of solution.

I can do up to four 4 x 5 sheets in my 8 x 10 Beseler drum on a roller base. One can find these or the similar Uniroller drums at ebay from time to time at moderate cost. With my drum I get by using 4 oz of solution.

[stradibarrius]

I use the method described, aka "Taco method", and it works great for me. I have looked into the mod 54 and it looks like a great method but it takes a 3 roll Patterson tank and I only have two roll tanks.

[Dean Taylor]

hi LFP community--

And, thank you, one and all, for weighing in!

Q: is there an issue with the back (non-emulsion) side of the film being bound by the rubber band? ("The antihalation dye didn't rinse out where the elastic was, even with the fabric ones.")? Does the back of the 4x5 negative need unhindered contact with chemicals too?



Best,

Dean

[ShawnHoke]

hi LFP community--

And, thank you, one and all, for weighing in!

Q: is there an issue with the back (non-emulsion) side of the film being bound by the rubber band? ("The antihalation dye didn't rinse out where the elastic was, even with the fabric ones.")? Does the back of the 4x5 negative need unhindered contact with chemicals too?



Best,

Dean

I've never had an issue with the band touching the non-emulsion side. I always use the fabric hair bands FWIW.

[Dean Taylor]

First, thank you all for your responses to my inquiry.

Is it permissible to use a tray somewhat smaller than 9x12 for single-sheet processing?

For example, a three-inch deep 6x8 tray: would this not afford enough room for chemicals to...circulate around the film?

Also, my admittedly limited understanding of the process is that the chemicals must linger long enough to act upon the negative, but not too long that they are not replenished with fresh chemicals--true?

These are the two films I have to use:

Kodak 880 6465 Portra 400 Professional ISO 400

HP5 400 Plus Black and White Negative Film 4 x 5

If time permits, please describe the 'safest' (most tolerant of amateur processing technique) chemical selection for processing each.


thank you

Dean

[chassis]

The BTZS tube method does not (in my experience) eliminate all of the anti-halation coating from the non-emulsion side of the film. This has no consequence on processing, negative quality or final image quality. The coating is removed in the fixing step. My workflow includes 1.5-2 minute or so of rolling the tube in a tray of fixer, then removing the negative from the tube, inserting it into a stainless steel hanger, and fixing for the remaining time in a Kodak hard rubber tank.

[sdynes]

I have used trays and hangers; I have access to a real darkroom so developing in the dark isn't a problem (and the Massive Dev app helps with times).

I've been using the tray method for a couple of years now - 4x5 in 5x7 trays. The trays are smooth-bottomed, which is less than ideal as the sheets can lie flat on the bottom and can be difficult to pick up to shuffle (I push them into a corner, and can grab them by the raised portion there). I've never had any problems with scratching; I develop with the emulsion side down so that corners drag across the back of the sheet. I develop in Pyro HD, and the lower limit on my chemistry is set by practical matters (the per-sheet requirement and my accurately measuring out 2 ml of stock) than by what I need to float the sheets. I find that it's pretty easy to handle N+1 /N-1 timings pretty easily by turning those sheets so the corner emulsion markings are in the opposite corner.

If I'm going to develop more than 5-6 sheets I'll load the hangers and use a tank, and a lot more chemistry.

I use a water pre-soak, and it is always clear when I start and always very purple when I'm done - I'm assuming that a lot of the anti-halation coating comes off in the pre-soak.

[cyrus]

The Taco method works just fine, and if the antihalation layer is not removed in the developer, it will come off later in the stop/fix/wash.

If you REALLY can't just use a darkened bathroom, you can always use a changing tent too. I use a large one to process prints in trays when I want the rest of the room to lit normally. I just put a towel on the bottom of the tent to catch any spills. You only need to fit the developer and stop trays -- you can fix outside of the tent after the stop.