LF selection help!

[seandavid]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum, and needing some advice (if possible?).

Excuse me if this question is redundant. I've been searching for information for months (maybe I'm not searching properly?!).

I want to invest in a LF camera for landscape work. I've been shooting a 5d MarkII for a few years now, and have begun to dislike anything digital. However, I do like using my 24mm TSE II lens, and want a camera that has similar movement capabilities.

I since bought a Rolleiflex 2.8F as a walk around camera, but it's obviously quite limiting in its uses.


Here's what I'd like:

- A 4x5
- Preferably an easily transportable camera
- Ability to use wide, wide lenses
- As much movement capabilities as possible
- Price... hopefully under $4K

I enjoy the work of Michael Levin and know that he used a MT 2000. I was almost ready to pull the trigger on one, but wondering if there is something similar, or better, with more movements?

Is there anyone out there that uses a MT 2000, and can tell me that the movements on it are adequate, or would equate to the capabilities of my digital set-up?

Sorry again if these questions are redundant! I've really tried to research, but have these specific questions.

I really appreciate any insight that anyone may have.

Thanks

[Ari]

Under $4K? Movements? Wide lenses?
Easy.
The aforementioned Linhof, used, or a Wista RF, SP or VX.

[Alan Gales]

I'd skio the Linhof and go for a used Wista RF, SP or VX and buy some nice glass with the money that I saved.

[Alan Gales]

Man, I need to start wearing my glasses while posting! That's skip not skio.

[Bernice Loui]

Allow lens choice based on the images you're interested in making, then choose a camera that best supports the lens choices.

There are a lot of really good value view camera gear on the used market.


Bernice

[Alan Gales]

Bernice is 100% right. Decide first which lenses you want to use and then find a capable camera.

[Mark Stahlke]

Allow lens choice based on the images you're interested in making, then choose a camera that best supports the lens choices.+0.9

That's a good place to start but some people, such as myself, discover they prefer different focal length lenses for large format.

[Alan Gales]

[QUOTE=Mark Stahlke;991250

That's a good place to start but some people, such as myself, discover they prefer different focal length lenses for large format.[/QUOTE]

Boy, ain't that the truth!

[seandavid]

Thanks so much, everyone. I really appreciate the input!

Lens-wise, I was looking at the Schneider 47mm f/5.6 Super-Angulon XL Wide Angle Lens or the 58mm. My lens research has been a tad limited though. I do believe in investing in the best I can afford right off the bat, as I know I'll just end up wanting more (it's a problem).

I know levin uses the MT2000/Schneider combo, and his images look great to me. I just want to have a lot of versatility with DOF. Seems like I need to investigate the Wistas more.

Will there be any difference in image quality (camera-wise) between the Linhof and a Wista? Or is it more strictly about lens performance when comparing these types of cameras?

Again... Thanks so much for all your insights:)

[Ari]

The camera has no bearing on image quality, it may or may not enhance your photo-taking experience depending on its features, or lack thereof.
Many wonderful photos are produced using less-than-great cameras and lenses; it all comes down to one's eye and skill, built up over a long period of practice and dedication.
Having said that, the 47 and 58 are very wide lenses, allowing very limited camera movements; try to start with something more conventional, like a 150 or 210; those lenses will allow you to exploit your camera's abilities more fully.

[Alan Gales]

First of all there would be absolutely no difference in image quality between a photo shot with a Linhof or Wista using the same lens. They are both quality, rigid cameras.

You are talking about ultra wide lenses. The most popular wide angle lens for 4x5 is the 90mm. A 90mm is about equal to a 25mm on a 35mm camera.

One of my favorite lenses for my old Contax 139 35mm camera was my 25mm Zeiss which would be similar to a 90mm for 4x5. I own a 90mm but I much prefer my 121mm most of the time for a wide angle. A 121mm is close to a 35mm lens on a 35mm camera. Why? I don't know if I have changed or the format has changed me. I think it's the format

[Alan Gales]

You may think Ari is crazy but he actually gave you excellent advice about starting with a normal focal length. Large format is a different animal.

[Bernice Loui]

47mm on 4x5 is really wide, over 100 degrees angle of view. It highly recommends using a bag bellows with lenses this wide to get the most flexibility from them.

Field cameras are not always ideal for really wide lenses like these.

Image quality is affected by the ability of the lens, film flatness, camera alignment, camera support stability, camera technique and.... Going to a larger film format alone may not always gain in image quality as there are a lot of factors other than just film size that results in the overall image quality.

It may be better to start off with something basic like a normal focal length lens, get comfy with the view camera and move on from there since using a view camera is so very different than the current generation of auto image capture devices..


Bernice





Thanks so much, everyone. I really appreciate the input!

Lens-wise, I was looking at the Schneider 47mm f/5.6 Super-Angulon XL Wide Angle Lens or the 58mm. My lens research has been a tad limited though. I do believe in investing in the best I can afford right off the bat, as I know I'll just end up wanting more (it's a problem).

I know levin uses the MT2000/Schneider combo, and his images look great to me. I just want to have a lot of versatility with DOF. Seems like I need to investigate the Wistas more.

Will there be any difference in image quality (camera-wise) between the Linhof and a Wista? Or is it more strictly about lens performance when comparing these types of cameras?

Again... Thanks so much for all your insights:)

[tiggert]

47mm on 4x5 is really wide, over 100 degrees angle of view. It highly recommends using a bag bellows with lenses this wide to get the most flexibility from them.

Field cameras are not always ideal for really wide lenses like these.

Image quality is affected by the ability of the lens, film flatness, camera alignment, camera support stability, camera technique and.... Going to a larger film format alone may not always gain in image quality as there are a lot of factors other than just film size that results in the overall image quality.

It may be better to start off with something basic like a normal focal length lens, get comfy with the view camera and move on from there since using a view camera is so very different than the current generation of auto image capture devices..


Bernice
+1

Get a normal lens, focus on the camera and processes at first. Practice and practice some more. And once you ruin a sheet of film because you left the shutter open since you didn't practice your process enough you'll go back to practice some more!

Oh and pick up some cheap expired film to practice with....

[Alan Gales]

I'm 51 years old. I started shooting large format in my mid 40's. I have shot 35mm, 645, 6x6 and 6x7. I was no newb. When people on this forum suggested that I start with a "normal" lens on my 4x5, learn and add lenses later, I thought they were full of sh*t. I went ahead and bought the lenses that I thought I wanted. I soon learned much to my dismay that I was indeed a newd.

I just want to tell you that you are getting good advice.

[Alan Gales]

I did it again, second time tonight. That's newb, not newd. I need to start wearing my glasses while posting.

[Professional]

Honestly speaking, i am a wide angle fan boy, i didn't shoot LF much, but last time i did with 150mm i immediately found out that it is not that wide enough lens i really want, so i was researching, and just bought SK SA 72mm XL few days ago, it is so wide that i like, and sure i will go with 90mm, so even the format never changed me with which FL range i want to shoot, LF or MF or even 35mm, in fact on those last 2 formats my favorite FL range on wide side is 15-22mm, so for me even 90mm will not be that wide, but i know with LF i may go with something equivalent to 24-28mm, but 35mm equivalent on LF is too much for me.

I recommend you to go with one of the following lenses if you want something wide:

- SK SA 72mm XL
- Rodi 75mm
- SK SA 90mm XL
- SK 110 XXL or XL
- Fujinon 105mm
or any 90mm of any brand for LF glass [SK, Rodi, Fujin, Nik,.....etc].

[Brian Ellis]

I own the Canon 24mm TS-E II lens. I've also owned many large format cameras including a Master Technika Classic (not the 2000) (IIRC Canon doesn't use the terms "rise" and "fall," they use something like "vertical shift up" and "vertical shift down" but they're the same thing).

To answer your first question, any large format (4x5 and up) camera that has front rise, fall, shift and tilt will provide the same movements as your TS-E lens (and probably more relative to the 4x5 and up film size).

To answer your second question, unless there's a difference between the Master Technika Classic and the 2000 with respect to front fall (and I don't think there is in that respect) the 2000 doesn't have front fall. I never found that to be a problem with my Technika Classic partly because I seldom used front fall even when a camera has had it and secondly because there are a couple ways to achieve MOL the same effect as front fall with a Master Technika Classic (and presumably also with the 2000) by going to a little trouble.

In my experience it also will be a lot easier to use front tilts with the large format camera than with your TS-E lens because as you tilt with a large format camera you can observe the effect of the tilt on the entire image whereas with the TS-E lens you (or at least I) can only observe the effect on the object or area on which you're tilting after magnifying the image (which I find necessary to make the object or image for which I'm tilting large enough to tell whether it's in focus after the tilt). At 10x magnification you/I can't see what the tilt is doing to the rest of the image. So you/I end up going back and forth between the area for which you're tilting and the rest of the image, back and forth, back and forth, until eventually you get it right.

For that reason I find that I seldom use tilt with my TS-E lens. I know there are formulas for determining the amount of tilt with TS-E lenses but for me they're more trouble than they're worth. Fortunately with a 24mm lens it's seldom necessary to use much if any tilt for the landscape and architectural photography that I do.

[Brian Ellis]

I did it again, second time tonight. That's newb, not newd. I need to start wearing my glasses while posting.

I kind of liked the term "newd." It reminded me of Ted Orland's classic photograph of a nude photographer photographing a clothed model. : - )