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Thread: Professional flatbed scanners?

  1. #11

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    Re: Professional flatbed scanners?

    Ted, if you don't mind it would be helpful for many of us to get some ballpark prices for these, I've often wondered, and my hunch is that a new Imacon and a slightly used high end flatbed might not be that far apart.

  2. #12
    Ted Harris's Avatar
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    Re: Professional flatbed scanners?

    Frank, actually a new Imacon and a new High End flatbed are the same!

    Imacon X1 and IQSmart 2 both = ~ 12,000 and you can readily get a factory refurb IQ Smart for 9-10K

    Imacon X5 and IQ Smart 3 both = ~ 20,000 and similar refurbs available for the 3.

    BTW, Jim at Midwest is now a Creo dealer!

  3. #13
    jetcode
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    Re: Professional flatbed scanners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian K View Post
    Ideally you should talk to Ted Harris but I can mention a few. There's the Creo/Kodak, I just bought the Creo IQsmart3 and so far find it far more of a professional tool than the Imacon it replaced. It's harder to get up and running because the software and scanner do so much more. Fuji makes a professional level flatbed, Screen has one, Azek has one.

    The differences between these and Microteks,Epsons, etc is huge, there's really no comparison. My Creo IQ3 does 5500 optical over the entire 13x18" bed with great shadow detail and very low noise and I have yet to try wet mounting which will yield even better results. These really are professional, pre-press tools.
    You get what you pay for - to get high resolution precision motors must be used, high end optics, etc. I have a refurbed Cezanne Elite coming on Monday. Can't wait to take it through its paces. $6k. The price of a refurbed Imacon 848 or better is well beyond that. Plus I can get 4-5k dpi of quality over the entire bed. Bought an nice Apple G4 for $200.

    There will be some learning curve no doubt but I have a lot of film to practice with.

    Joe

  4. #14

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    Re: Professional flatbed scanners?

    Don't mean to hijack this thread but...What type of computer power is necessary for high end flat bed scanners (in terms of RAM, hard drive etc) for 4x5 scans? Are these scanners only Mac compatible or are there PC options (for around 4K)?

  5. #15

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    Re: Professional flatbed scanners?

    Ted,

    How are 4x5 negatives mounted for scanning? Do they sit directly on the glass? What are the provisions for preventing Newton's rings, which make me crazy with Tmax film?

  6. #16
    Ted Harris's Avatar
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    Re: Professional flatbed scanners?

    Joe, you will find that very little learning is required to start to get super scans using yoiur new scanner and the Color Genius software (make sure you upgrade to the latest version and that you have the correct SCSI card ... btw if you want to run on OSX 10.4 instead of 10.3.x you will need a different SCSI card). The learning curve to master the software is much much steeper .

    Sung, a few are PC compatible but most that I know of are Mac specific but, since many of them run just fine on older Mac's you can get the needed computer for little money. As for computing power, they don't take that much. I have actually run the IQSmart 3 on a Mac Mini (although that is way less than recommended and the hookup almost gave the ?tech rep a heart attack) but wouldn't recommend it. Right now I am running both the Cezanne and the IQSmart 3 on a Mac dual processor G5 with 5 GB Ram. The machine has two hard drives, both bootable, and the Cezanne boots off of OSX10.3.x on one drive and the IQ Smart 3 boots off of OSX 10.4 on the other drive. The Cezanne is hooked up via a SCSI connection and the IQ Smart via Firewire. Both of these machines like to know that they are the only thing running so it is imperative that only ONE is actually turned on at a time. The G5 is networked with 4 other machines in the studio. One of the other machines, the one I am sitting at now, also has the Cezanne's client software installed as the Cezanne can operate in a client/host mode as wsell as on a single machine. So, for ~ 4K you may well be able to get a machine and a 'puter to run it.

    Ed, of course the answer "it all depends" is the mpost important one. It depends on how beatup the negative is and how concerned I am with reducing/eliminating grain. Brian, who posted above, for example, prints very large and needs to pay a lot of attention to grain and, thus, he always wet mounts. To answer your specific questions, the negatives sit directly on the glass but both scanners use specially formulated glass with an anti newton ring coating (the IQ Smart 2 uses a different glass than the 3 but also Anti Newton Ring formulated). I have not yet had a single newton ring problem with either scanner. When not wet mounting I:

    1) tape large negatives to the glass using painter's tape that is formulated for delicate surfaces.

    2) for up to 5x7 on the Cezanne just carefully position the negative and then carefully place the cover glass over it (or them if more than one). This is a glass that is supplied with the scanner that runs the width of the bed and fits in grooves on the sides, also anti newton ring treated.

    3) for up to 4x5 on the IQSmart 3, i fI have more than one or two to do, I tape the negatives to the back of the supplied mask that can handle six 4x5's, etc. The scanner came with a bunch of blank masks to cut other sizes and I have cut masks for 8x10, 6x12 and 6x17. Larger than 8x10 it is back to the tape. The Masks fit precisely on registration pins on the scanner.

    When wet mounting I use the lightest liquid that I think will do the job so as to minimize the cleanup process. I seldom use Kami fluid. Prazio products are my choice and they vary from the anti-newton ring spay (the lightest) through anti newton ring oil to montage gel (the heaviest). I don't use a mounting station for either scanner, don't find them necesssary in my particular workspace. The scanning surfaces are easily removable and meant to be removed (they have handles at each end). Given that, I simply take the glass off of the scanner and carry it over to a worktable where I have a large sheet of mylar spread to insure the bottom of the glass stays clean and then proceed to mount and then carry the glass back to the scanner and go to work. Brian, I believe is now using the Creo mounting station with his scanner so perhap he can chime in with more details on that.

  7. #17
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
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    Re: Professional flatbed scanners?

    Ted, when do you choose wet mounting vs. tape mounting?

  8. #18
    jetcode
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    Re: Professional flatbed scanners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Harris View Post
    The learning curve to master the software is much much steeper .
    Hi Ted,

    It can't be any worse then learning CS2, in fact Color Genius appears to have a nice palette of operating control. Getting the right SCSI card will be an issue for sure. I have two right now and neither as I find out are recommended for this scanner software. What SCSI card do you use? I was under the assumption that Color Genius had to run on OS 9.2.2. I need to get an accurate monitor too. No doubt there will be some investment in understanding this scanner. I have some photographs to share in a day or two.

    Joe

    P.S. How do I scan 8x10 or 4x10's on the Cezanne?

  9. #19
    Ted Harris's Avatar
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    Re: Professional flatbed scanners?

    Joe,

    Color Genius does have a ncie palette of controls but it will take a long time to master them all ... not that you will necessarily need to do so. Best bet for the SCSI card is to call Kirsten at Screen in Chicago and she can tell you which card will work with your machine. I really don't want to crawl under the table and drag out the machine and then disconnect the scanner and take out the card to check it. My recollection is that it is an Adaptec 2309N but not sure. There are 2 different cards that she recommends, I do remember that. One will allow you to run on operating systems up to OSX 10.3.x and the other on OSX 10.4.x. The Adaptec card that works through 10.3.x is now discontinued I believe but you can probably get one on eBay. ATTO makes the card that works with 10.4.

    Re 8x10 or 4x10 ... either wet mount 'em or tape 'em down.

  10. #20
    jetcode
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    Re: Professional flatbed scanners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Harris View Post
    Joe,

    Color Genius does have a ncie palette of controls but it will take a long time to master them all ... not that you will necessarily need to do so. Best bet for the SCSI card is to call Kirsten at Screen in Chicago and she can tell you which card will work with your machine. I really don't want to crawl under the table and drag out the machine and then disconnect the scanner and take out the card to check it. My recollection is that it is an Adaptec 2309N but not sure. There are 2 different cards that she recommends, I do remember that. One will allow you to run on operating systems up to OSX 10.3.x and the other on OSX 10.4.x. The Adaptec card that works through 10.3.x is now discontinued I believe but you can probably get one on eBay. ATTO makes the card that works with 10.4.

    Re 8x10 or 4x10 ... either wet mount 'em or tape 'em down.
    thanks ted - joe

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