Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 45

Thread: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

  1. #21
    Lachlan 717
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,591

    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    I shoot panoramic with an Xpan, a field 6x17cm and a 7x17", so I believe that I am well-versed on this subject.

    You can get Xpans for well under $3000, so please don't muddy the water with claims they cost this much (mine was well under $2000, and I also purchased a 90mm for it for under $300).

    As lightweight travel pano camera, I believe there is nothing to compare. With a film like Velvia 50, you will get images good enough to make large prints. It is quick to shoot if you want to. It is small, relatively light and does not draw attention.

    If I want something to take colour panos for larger prints, I'll use the 6x17. If I want large B&W, I'll shoot the 7x17.

    But I'll generally pack the Xpan every time I travel and be happy doing so.
    Lachlan.

    You miss 100% of the shots you never take. -- Wayne Gretzky

  2. #22

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    756

    Sorry... certainly not my intention to offend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachlan 717 View Post
    I shoot panoramic with an Xpan, a field 6x17cm and a 7x17", so I believe that I am well-versed on this subject.

    You can get Xpans for well under $3000, so please don't muddy the water with claims they cost this much (mine was well under $2000, and I also purchased a 90mm for it for under $300).

    As lightweight travel pano camera, I believe there is nothing to compare. With a film like Velvia 50, you will get images good enough to make large prints. It is quick to shoot if you want to. It is small, relatively light and does not draw attention.

    If I want something to take colour panos for larger prints, I'll use the 6x17. If I want large B&W, I'll shoot the 7x17.

    But I'll generally pack the Xpan every time I travel and be happy doing so.
    I did not realize the X-pan was such an inexpensive option. Never owned on, so should not have ventured a number. Personally I am not doing anything with 135 film, so I retract my number. In fact, why don't I just change it to $2000.

  3. #23

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    1,837

    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuzano View Post
    Wow!! interesting point, and thanks for creating another benefit for my solution. You are helping to make my case.

    OK, all the benefits I listed before.

    And... You avoid buying a $3000 Hassy X-pan and get a pano twice as wide as the X-pan.

    What a team we'd make brainstorming together.

    Old N Feeble and I are (together) onto something here. There has to be a market for a set of these modified slides in a more suitable material. The set I see would be one for two 46X118mm, one for one 56X118 on one side, and one for 36X118 to use up the leftover from the 56x118, and that one to also create the X-Pan substitute. Wadda you say ONF... you up to making some serious money on a collaberation?????
    I'll leave that up to your youthful exuberance. I'm too old and brain-dead to be of any use to you... and my attitude sucks.

  4. #24
    jadphoto
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Solvang, California
    Posts
    465

    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Another option, Ted Bromwell sells a graflok back for the Osaka camera. The Osaka is indeed a Tachihara clone so the Osaka back would probably fit. I'm sure the Ted could tell you whether or not it would.

    If the weight is not the issue, I can put my Sinar Zoom in my Sinar F-1 and measure the actual required gap for you. On the Sinar I always use it without removing the gg. For what it's worth, until recently I used it on a Shen Hao the same way.

    There is a used Calumet/Cambo 6x12cm currently for sale. I think I saw it at KEH, but it could have been ebay.

    JD

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Germany, Aalen
    Posts
    849

    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Now that is what I call creative approach - thank you a lot for all your advices and ideas. Let me go through there step by step

    Although the original idea is NOT to use a 4x5 camera, I am reconsidering all the possibilities. The point is to find a camera that would lend itself better for longer trips (like visiting New Zealand or Patagonia) that would allow me to take the photos a little bit faster and allow me to use roll film and so save the weight of film holders (5 4x5 film holders weight 1kg) and changing tent and make also the flying part a bit easier.

    Graflok back for Tachi:
    First of all - is I remain in the 4x5 'business', than I will change my Tachi for something else - the main reason being that the camera is not well suited for lenses wider than 90 (I have 75 and it is really tough to use and I get nearly no movements). So I would not be looking for a graflok back for it.

    But if I get another 4x5 camera - it will most probably be heavier than the Tachi and would not really serve the purpose of lighter and simpler (faster to use) 6x12 camera (I am looking into metal cameras this time - Toyo VX125, Arca-Swiss F-field or Linhof TK45S or similar)

    Xpan:
    I am aware of the Xpan of course and have to admit that it is really a very interesting camera, but my main point is - I am really after 2:1 ratio - so 6x12 would fit well. The more common 2.7:1 is just too much for my taste somehow and also find the 35mm film a bit too ... little. But concerning the simplicity and compactness the Xpan is miles ahead of any other option, so point taken.

    Slide-under-GG 6x12 holder (a'la Sinar Zoom):
    I have just checked with the Tachihara - it would be no problem to slide 1 inch (or even more) thick roll film holder under the GG.
    The question that remains is - how heavy are the holders available, and which actually hold the film nicely flat?

    "Normal" 6x12 cameras (a'la Horseman SW612):
    Do not come with tilt movement - although it should be no big problem to make the back tilt-able for a few degrees, but that would be a custom work what probably means a lot of $$$

    "Normal" 6x12 (or 6x17 for that matter) cameras add one more problem - as soon as one wants to carry more than 1 lens (I would be interested in 2 - 3) than the bulk and weight grows very fast - as each lens has its dedicated mount-cone with its own helical focusing. However if the camera just were to have a "nice little bellows" than the lenses could be mounted in a similar manner to view cameras.

    Using half-dakslide with 4x5:
    I did that in the past, but one needs really to be careful which part of the film was actually exposed. Also one needs to keep in mind during composition & focusing which half of the GG actually shows the image that will be recorded. Doable, but it adds several mistake sources. One can indeed produce 2 panoramic shots that size-wise are somewhere between dedicated 6x17 and Xpan. But again - the proportions are not what I want.

    Another option is of course to use something like Fuji GW690 and either live with the format or crop it down - in that case I would probably just stay with 6x9.

    6x17 view cameras:
    As mentioned by toyotadesigner there are (at least) 6x17 view cameras by Ebony and ShenHao. I have even found a 6x17 monorail on eBay caller "V-Pan MKIII) (see 270967413295). As interesting as these cameras look, these are not really smaller or lighter than field 4x5 camera (although the Ebony looks nice with the hinged GG)

    ***********

    Now - where does this leaves me - it seems like I am after camera that nobody before me wanted or needed. That either suggest that my approach is either not correct or everyone else does not get it

    So - what would you do .... a 3 week trip to Patagonia with your wife ... you travel a lot ... maybe with a camper van ... you try not to spend 20 minutes per shot ... and you like film ... and do not want to stitch your panoramas ... and want print a few 15x30" once you get home ...
    Matus

  6. #26

    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    So - what would you do ....
    I would pack my Plaubel ProShift 69W Superwide with the Schneider Super-Angulon 5.6/47mm and my Fuji GW 690 III with the EBC 3.5/90 mm

    Same film format, no electronics, razor sharp lenses on both cameras.

    BTW, if you scan a 6x9 @ 4.000 ppi, you'll end up with a file of 12.900 x 8.600 pixels. Printed @ 300 dpi (without any resizing!) it will give you a nice and sharp print of 109 x 83 centimeter or 43 x 29 inch, which is a lot more than you intend to hang on the wall.

    However, you want or need tilt, so this dream team wouldn't work for you.

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Location
    Loganville , GA
    Posts
    14,409

    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Quote Originally Posted by Matus Kalisky View Post
    Now that is what I call creative approach - thank you a lot for all your advices and ideas. Let me go through there step by step

    Although the original idea is NOT to use a 4x5 camera, I am reconsidering all the possibilities. The point is to find a camera that would lend itself better for longer trips (like visiting New Zealand or Patagonia) that would allow me to take the photos a little bit faster and allow me to use roll film and so save the weight of film holders (5 4x5 film holders weight 1kg) and changing tent and make also the flying part a bit easier.

    Graflok back for Tachi:
    First of all - is I remain in the 4x5 'business', than I will change my Tachi for something else - the main reason being that the camera is not well suited for lenses wider than 90 (I have 75 and it is really tough to use and I get nearly no movements). So I would not be looking for a graflok back for it.

    But if I get another 4x5 camera - it will most probably be heavier than the Tachi and would not really serve the purpose of lighter and simpler (faster to use) 6x12 camera (I am looking into metal cameras this time - Toyo VX125, Arca-Swiss F-field or Linhof TK45S or similar)

    Xpan:
    I am aware of the Xpan of course and have to admit that it is really a very interesting camera, but my main point is - I am really after 2:1 ratio - so 6x12 would fit well. The more common 2.7:1 is just too much for my taste somehow and also find the 35mm film a bit too ... little. But concerning the simplicity and compactness the Xpan is miles ahead of any other option, so point taken.

    Slide-under-GG 6x12 holder (a'la Sinar Zoom):
    I have just checked with the Tachihara - it would be no problem to slide 1 inch (or even more) thick roll film holder under the GG.
    The question that remains is - how heavy are the holders available, and which actually hold the film nicely flat?

    "Normal" 6x12 cameras (a'la Horseman SW612):
    Do not come with tilt movement - although it should be no big problem to make the back tilt-able for a few degrees, but that would be a custom work what probably means a lot of $$$

    "Normal" 6x12 (or 6x17 for that matter) cameras add one more problem - as soon as one wants to carry more than 1 lens (I would be interested in 2 - 3) than the bulk and weight grows very fast - as each lens has its dedicated mount-cone with its own helical focusing. However if the camera just were to have a "nice little bellows" than the lenses could be mounted in a similar manner to view cameras.

    Using half-dakslide with 4x5:
    I did that in the past, but one needs really to be careful which part of the film was actually exposed. Also one needs to keep in mind during composition & focusing which half of the GG actually shows the image that will be recorded. Doable, but it adds several mistake sources. One can indeed produce 2 panoramic shots that size-wise are somewhere between dedicated 6x17 and Xpan. But again - the proportions are not what I want.

    Another option is of course to use something like Fuji GW690 and either live with the format or crop it down - in that case I would probably just stay with 6x9.

    6x17 view cameras:
    As mentioned by toyotadesigner there are (at least) 6x17 view cameras by Ebony and ShenHao. I have even found a 6x17 monorail on eBay caller "V-Pan MKIII) (see 270967413295). As interesting as these cameras look, these are not really smaller or lighter than field 4x5 camera (although the Ebony looks nice with the hinged GG)

    ***********

    Now - where does this leaves me - it seems like I am after camera that nobody before me wanted or needed. That either suggest that my approach is either not correct or everyone else does not get it

    So - what would you do .... a 3 week trip to Patagonia with your wife ... you travel a lot ... maybe with a camper van ... you try not to spend 20 minutes per shot ... and you like film ... and do not want to stitch your panoramas ... and want print a few 15x30" once you get home ...
    Linhof 617 Technorama with or without the shift option. Linhof Technorama 612 PC II, Linhof 56x120mm Techno Rollex 612 roll back for any Graflok backe 45.

  8. #28

    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Bob, what is the price range for the 612 PC II (with shift I think), a roll film back plus a 65 mm and 125 mm Rodenstock lens? AFAIK it's around 10.000 Euro or 13.000 US$, and still doesn't offer any tilt option.

  9. #29

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    1,837

    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Matus... It's not that no one has ever wanted an ultralight 6x12cm field camera. There aren't enough buyers for the market to support production of any. Most folks who shoot 6x12cm also want to shoot 4x5... or the option to anyway. Let's face it, a 4x5in camera with a 6x12cm RFH is more versatile and not significantly heavier/bulkier than a dedicated 6x12cm field camera would be.

  10. #30
    Whatever David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Posts
    4,658

    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    If you think about it, as soon as you add a rotating back option to the design of a 6x12cm view camera, you've got a 4x5" view camera. If you want a camera that does verticals by tilting it on its side and no rotating back, then you probably want both swing and tilt, and the additional weight of the swing mechanism puts you in the territory of a 4x5" camera made with similar materials.

    I can weigh my Zoom (I) rollfilm holder when I get home tonight, if no one else does it before I do.

    I can say from personal experience that all you need to do is to take up 8x10" and larger, and you'll start thinking of the 4x5" as your lightweight snapshot camera, and you won't be too concerned about the differences between a hypothetical 6x12 camera and a 4x5" camera.

Similar Threads

  1. Front Tilt or Reat Tilt on a Linhof Tech... Which Do You Use?
    By Scott Rosenberg in forum Cameras & Camera Accessories
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 18-Sep-2017, 09:48
  2. Base Tilt versus Axis Tilt
    By Ty G in forum Cameras & Camera Accessories
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 6-May-2010, 12:22
  3. Center/Axis Tilt vs Base Tilt
    By Greg Liscio in forum Cameras & Camera Accessories
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 9-Jun-2009, 10:31
  4. Large format movements: how much tilt?
    By markvoce in forum Style & Technique
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 16-May-2006, 18:45
  5. Newbie Q: rear tilt vs. front tilt
    By Todd Caudle in forum Style & Technique
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 5-Dec-1999, 21:07

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •