Nearly hit by bottle while shooting...!?!

[Mattg]

Hi Jim,
yes we do have guns here and they're in the hands of farmers, professional hunters (culling), registered sporting shooters, police and army....and a relatively small number of criminals!

I grew up with guns as I lived in the country, my grandfather fed his family on duck and rabbit in the very hard years after WWII, I have no problem with guns in their place.

I can't see how city life requires the use of firearms, unless everyone else also has firearms.... I'm just surprised that it's seen as acceptable for so many people to have them. I've never been shot at while taking a photo, not accidently by hunters nor purposely by morons and there's a reason for that. This isn't a criticism of The United States, just an observation that two people there have narrowly missed being killed while taking photographs.

It's also true that I've never had a beer bottle thrown at me while taking photographs and we do have a lot of beer here.

[Brian K]

Bullshit. Iraq alone proves that civilians with handguns can effectively fight a vastly superior Army. Certainly not in a traditional battle, but as a stalling tactic that frustrates the enemy until the cowards at home grow impatient and call the troops home.

More guns in the hands of good citizens reduces crime and evens the odds against the bad guys who would otherwise have an advantage. Every kid should be taking target practice and gun safety classes IMHO.

Frank, a stalling tactic only works against an adversary that cares about the amount of casualties. Totalitarian governments such as Hitler's, Stalin's, Saddam's etc don't care how many of their own people they kill, or how many of their troops die on their behalf. Stalin purged ( killed or imprisoned) tens of millions of his own people, some estimates go as high as 20 million. If a totalitarian gov't seized control of the US do you really think they'd be as careful with civilian casualties as we are in Iraq?


The Iraqis aren't using handguns, they have automatic weapons, RPG's, heavy machine guns, mortars and vast supplies of explosives. Do you think we should supply the civilian population of the US with these same types of weapons just in case? That would be great, the next time high school kids decide to murder their fellow students they can use an RPG. Also the Iraqi insurgents are hugely populated by former members of the Iraqi army who, in the very first act of the Iraqi provisional gov't (Paul Bremer) fired 300,000 Iraqis soldiers. Nothing like 300,000 highly trained heavily armed unemployed and pissed off young men to make trouble. BTW the insurgency started 3 days after the disbanding (firing) of the Iraqi army.


I'm just curious how many people here personally knew someone murdered with a firearm. I knew two, one was an armed, on duty police officer.

[Marko]

One of the first marks of a totalitarian regime is to ban personal weapons. I don't think they would bother if it really didn't matter to them.

IMHO, there is no weapons problem, only people problem. Most gun crimes are comitted by using illegal weapons in the first place.

As someone who have been shot at, I am very positive that it was a human who pulled the trigger, the gun didn't discharge spontaneously.

[Brian K]

One of the first marks of a totalitarian regime is to ban personal weapons. I don't think they would bother if it really didn't matter to them.

IMHO, there is no weapons problem, only people problem. Most gun crimes are comitted by using illegal weapons in the first place.

As someone who have been shot at, I am very positive that it was a human who pulled the trigger, the gun didn't discharge spontaneously.

Actually one of the first things a totalitarian regime does is disband or take control over the press. Maybe it's a free press that causes all those gun homicides?

Where do you think illegal guns come from? They are either bought legally, or bought legally and then sold illegaly or are stolen from gun owners, so in reality all guns used in crimes start as legal guns.

[Greg Lockrey]

I'm just curious how many people here personally knew someone murdered with a firearm. I knew two, one was an armed, on duty police officer.

We had a neighbor a couple of weeks ago that was an undercover cop get killed by a 15 year old. Very sad thing.

In my personnal experiance, my former wife and a neighbor had a long standing feud that boiled to a point where the neighbor's "boyfriend", more like pimp, was going to show how macho he was and pulled out a gasoline can and lighter and threatened to "light" my wife and house up. When I pulled my Thompson Center Contender pistol and chambered a 45/70 round, and told him that I was going to blow off his head if he didn't drop the can, he literally pissed his purple satin pants. I asked the wife "can I shoot this one Momma?" Figuring that I was crazier than he was he gathered up the rest of his "girlfriends" and headed back to where ever he came from. Nobody got hurt, there is something about seeing a 45/70 dropped into a chamber of a pistol and then pointed at your head that makes you very docile very fast. Now if I called and waited for the cops, my house would have been burned to the ground by the time they got here from 20 miles away. No, I think I'll just keep my pistols, thank you.

[Brian K]

We had a neighbor a couple of weeks ago that was an undercover cop get killed by a 15 year old. Very sad thing.

In my personnal experiance, my former wife and a neighbor had a long standing feud that boiled to a point where the neighbor's "boyfriend", more like pimp, was going to show how macho he was and pulled out a gasoline can and lighter and threatened to "light" my wife and house up. When I pulled my Thompson Center Contender pistol and chambered a 45/70 round, and told him that I was going to blow off his head if he didn't drop the can, he literally pissed his purple satin pants. I asked the wife "can I shoot this one Momma?" Figuring that I was crazier than he was he gathered up the rest of his "girlfriends" and headed back to where ever he came from. Nobody got hurt, there is something about seeing a 45/70 dropped into a chamber of a pistol and then pointed at your head that makes you very docile very fast. Now if I called and waited for the cops, my house would have been burned to the ground by the time they got here from 20 miles away. No, I think I'll just keep my pistols, thank you.

You could have also called the cops and he would have been arrested, instead he is out and about and can just as easily as you he can go buy a gun and pay you a visit. He doesn't even have to be a good sport and warn you, he can just lay in wait for you and kill you. This scenario happens all the time. About 10 years ago a japanese tourist who was on his way to a costume party wandered into the garage of the wrong house, he was shot dead by the owner who also didn't realize that the young japanese man did not understand english. Statistically the gun owner is more likely to be killed by his own gun than is the intruder.

[Greg Lockrey]

You could have also called the cops and he would have been arrested, instead he is out and about and can just as easily as you he can go buy a gun and pay you a visit. He doesn't even have to be a good sport and warn you, he can just lay in wait for you and kill you. This scenario happens all the time. About 10 years ago a japanese tourist who was on his way to a costume party wandered into the garage of the wrong house, he was shot dead by the owner who also didn't realize that the young japanese man did not understand english. Statistically the gun owner is more likely to be killed by his own gun than is the intruder.

All true! Arrested for what? My word against his? I spent two years in combat, I still look over my shoulder. After about 20 years, I'm still waiting for that "gypsie caravan" to come back. I don't think they're coming, do you? The number of people killed with their own guns is still less than drown in their own swimming pools and there is way more households with guns than have pools, so your point is? I live out in the boonies, there isn't time to wait for cops.

Hell, I kicked a polititian off my property last election season that I don't agree with politically and she called the cops on me because she felt "threatened". After a half hour wait they showed up and I explained to them that I don't want "commies" on my property and she refuses to leave. They escorted her off and told her that she was trespassing. That took a half hour and she felt "threatened" and she is a polititian to boot. Just how fast do you suppose they will come if just me or my wife that makes the call?

[Marko]

Actually one of the first things a totalitarian regime does is disband or take control over the press. Maybe it's a free press that causes all those gun homicides?

Not to nitpick, but turning the press into a roadkill is one of the things totalitarians do to become a regime. Along with dismissing all personal rights and beefing up the military.

Once they get into power, they start doing things that help them stay there, such as beefing up the police, banning personal weapons and criminalizing speech.

Where do you think illegal guns come from? They are either bought legally, or bought legally and then sold illegaly or are stolen from gun owners, so in reality all guns used in crimes start as legal guns.

So, I take it there is no gun crimes in, say, England? How about Switzerland?

[Brian C. Miller]

About 10 years ago a japanese tourist who was on his way to a costume party wandered into the garage of the wrong house, he was shot dead by the owner who also didn't realize that the young japanese man did not understand english.

I remember that a number of years ago in Louisiana a Japanese exchange student was shot dead after terrorizing a man and woman in their house. He was a fan of some Japanese fright show, and he liked to frighten people and then photograph their expressions. The student ran around the house, screaming and banging on the doors and windows, while his American friend told him not to do that. When the man opened his door, the student rushed him. The man was carrying his gun, and shot because he thought that the student was about to kill him. While the student was only holding a camera, I assure you that just about anything being held looks like a lethal weapon, even a beer can. The man was brought to trial, and found innocent of murder.

I myself was almost in the same situation. One night I was woken from sleep by some woman banging on my door, and screaming "Get out of my head!" I lived in a tiny apartment, and there was nowhere to go. I got my gun and pointed it at the door. The only thing that went through my head was to say, repeatedly, "Hello?" The woman tried the door, and it opened. At that moment my hand clenched, and if my finger had been on the trigger she would have had a bullet in her face. As it was, she saw the gun, closed the door, and took off. I'm really glad it ended that way.

[Frank Petronio]

Statistics don't mean much to me when it is 3am and there is a drunk at the door and nearest neighbor is 1000 yards away.

But a shotgun is usually just as effective an visual aid.