Newton rings on scanned 8x10" negatives

[Ari]

I'm glad not to have to futz around with a v750 and sheet film anymore; I know that isn't helpful, so...
The v750 will give NRs with colour neg film, you can't get around that.
The only solution is wet scanning, and with 8x10 film that means using scanning fluid directly on the scanner glass.
Tape off three sides of the scanner, but not the top of the scanner, which is the calibration area; taping is not necessary if the fluid is applied judiciously and carefully, and that comes with a little practice.
You can dispense with the mylar at first, but as you get more critical of wet scans, mylar should be used, if only to protect film when rolling out the bubbles.

[pkr1979]

So, finally I managed to do a wet scan without any newton rings, no bubbles and no funny lines or streaks.

Initially I taped all four corners, I applied the fluid, and put on the negative. I did not apply any more fluid, nor any mylar. I got those annoying streaks again so I took of the tape in the calibration area and cleaned that part for any fluid or residue from the tape and got a scan I'm quite happy with. This is certainly the method I'll use from now one simply because I cant be bothered to spend more time sweating over that scanner than absolutely necessary. To sum up how I'll do it:
- tape all four corners
- put film area guide
- put on fluid
- put on negative (slowly from bottom to top in a bow)
- (remove film area guide)
- remove tape at top (calibration area)
- clean calibration area with a towel or whatever
- scan

Which is pretty much how Ari suggested it. Ari - how do you deal with sheet film and scanning if you dont use the Epson? And, I'll admit, I'm not to impressed by that scanner either. And I'm not sure if Epson should market it as a scanner that's capable of scanning 8x10"... because it kind of isn't.

Also, I did learn the hard way. I ruined the negative of my favorite photo after to much cleaning with various cloths and chemicals and water (Yes, I know now I messed up but I didn't know - I am new to this and I was desperate)... One shouldn't practice with the negatives that you care most for but I was really keen to get that picture without newton rings. Sadly I'm left with a previous scan with newton rings and a ruined negative instead.

Everyone, thanks though :-)

[Pere Casals]

You cannot scan 8x10 negatives in film holder mode, at least I cannot on the 750V...Film Area Guide only. Elevating 8x10 negatives in film area guide mode doesn't improve resolution for me, but it has for others.

Yes... it is important to follow these tips http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/s...34&foid=130102 the Area Guide mask shows the area where film can be scanned.

I place my custom bare glass (for wet mounting) over the area guide...

I don't know if placing the film at the same height than with holders has an advantage, I should test it with the 1951 glass slide. Anyway it can be a minor improvement that is irrelevant for 8x10, as a 4k monitor can display less than 1/50 of the information a 8x10 sheet is capable to deliver.

Even it is possible that with Area Guide it is better over glass that elevated (now just speculating). This scanners have 2 lenses, one is used to scan up to 5.6" wide, then theoric resolution is 6400.dpi. The other lens covers up to 8" wide with theoric 4800 dpi. Perhaps when using the wide lens system focus is just in the exterior glass face of the bed... At the end this would be the right design: Scanner detects Area Guide pattern => film is over glass => let's place lens focus there...

I'm very satisfied with the V750, (a professional may have better options, perhaps) what I like the more is that it has little digital image enhacement processing inside the firmware/driver, so there is more freedom to adjust later in PS. Other scanners have hidden internal sharpening, adaptative contrast algorithms, color enhacement LUTs, a bit like Instagram edition software... to justify excessive prices, IMHO.

True "1951" performance of the 750 is 2800 / 2300 dpi depending on the axis, for sheets this is a lot, for 135 perhaps a dedicated 135 scanner makes some difference. What I found is that multi-exposure is a critical feature, in other scanners this comes included, with the 750 this software feature had to be purchased apart. With the 850 I use now it came for free.

[Ari]

So, finally I managed to do a wet scan without any newton rings, no bubbles and no funny lines or streaks.

Initially I taped all four corners, I applied the fluid, and put on the negative. I did not apply any more fluid, nor any mylar. I got those annoying streaks again so I took of the tape in the calibration area and cleaned that part for any fluid or residue from the tape and got a scan I'm quite happy with. This is certainly the method I'll use from now one simply because I cant be bothered to spend more time sweating over that scanner than absolutely necessary. To sum up how I'll do it:
- tape all four corners
- put film area guide
- put on fluid
- put on negative (slowly from bottom to top in a bow)
- (remove film area guide)
- remove tape at top (calibration area)
- clean calibration area with a towel or whatever
- scan

Which is pretty much how Ari suggested it. Ari - how do you deal with sheet film and scanning if you dont use the Epson? And, I'll admit, I'm not to impressed by that scanner either. And I'm not sure if Epson should market it as a scanner that's capable of scanning 8x10"... because it kind of isn't.

Also, I did learn the hard way. I ruined the negative of my favorite photo after to much cleaning with various cloths and chemicals and water (Yes, I know now I messed up but I didn't know - I am new to this and I was desperate)... One shouldn't practice with the negatives that you care most for but I was really keen to get that picture without newton rings. Sadly I'm left with a previous scan with newton rings and a ruined negative instead.

Everyone, thanks though :-)

Hi Peter,
I devised a subtle but effective method for working around the Epson...I bought a Creo scanner.
It sounds like you did just fine, even though your film suffered some damage.
With a little practice, the Epson can be an effective scanner when using the fluid; it's the best scanner available, dollars-per-dpi.
It's also worth getting some proper scanner wipes to keep your scanner glass clean and scratch-free. I use Photex scanner wipes with distilled water, but there are other options, see the B&H website.

[mitrajoon]

Perhaps, but it takes just a minute to try it and costs nothing.

[Alan9940]

Peter, sorry to hear of your ruined negative, but glad to hear you've got a technique for wet mounting that works for you. Now, just go make some more favorite negs!

[pkr1979]

Peter, sorry to hear of your ruined negative, but glad to hear you've got a technique for wet mounting that works for you. Now, just go make some more favorite negs!

Indeed B-)

[pkr1979]

Fellas! I figured I'd share this one with you guys - the negative wasn't that badly damaged... and no Newton rings: https://peterrisholm.com/2016/11/02/...-carrying-son/ :-)
Thanks again - all of you!

[DannyTreacy]

Hi all,

I have read this thread with great interest and toady attempted my first wet scan using an Epson V850.

I followed all of the hints and tips I could find and used all of the correct materials, the scan seemed to go fine, no issues with bubbles or streaks. I thought I'd do a test on 120 neg (Kodak Portra 160), one using the film holder, one wet scanned straight onto the glass using Kami fluid and Mylar on top, the issue is that on close inspection the scan with the holder actually seems sharper. Both were scanned at the same dpi, 2400.

I also tried changing the setting 'film area guide' to 'with film holder' when wet scanning as I thought perhaps the lower res lens might be causing an issue but both versions wet scanned still produced 'less sharp' initial scans.

I'm using Epson scan software, is that right? I did install Silverfast 8 and had a go with that but I find the software very cumbersome and not at all intuitive and the resulting scan was awful when wet scanned.

Any info or advice most welcome!

[pkr1979]

Hi Danny,

I'm no expert but it might be because of the lower res lens. I dont think it would help to change the setting to 'with film holder' when scanning on the bed because I think this lens focuses higher up (to where the film would be if they were in the film holder), meaning that the negative is out of focus. You need to put the film where you say in order to make the scanner focus right.

So maybe using the sharper lens and film holder is sharper then a wet scan on the scanner bed... you could try the wet mounting kit I suppose.

I only wet scan when I scan 8x10 color negatives, if I scan BW negs I dont bother. And when I scan 120 film I use the Epson holder trying to make sure the film is flat. Simply because its less effort and I dont really see the big difference. If scan the same 8x10" color negative wet and dry I cant really tell there is much of a difference, apart from the Newton rings :-) If you scan 120 film in the holders you want get any Newton rings either :-) If I where you I wouldnt bother to wet scan.

I use the Epson software as well - simply cause its easier to use. I tried Silverfast to but found it to be waaaayyy to cumbersome to deal with.

I hope it helps a little bit :-)

Cheers
Peter