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Thread: Contact vs. Digital print AND scanners for large format...

  1. #31
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
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    Re: Contact vs. Digital print AND scanners for large format...

    Quote Originally Posted by audioexcels View Post
    In sum, it seems to me that contact printing should be done ...
    i think one of the best reasons to do it is the beauty of such a minimalist technique. if the gear and the materials and method serve what you're trying to do, there's something just about perfect about contact printing.

    i like that for much of his career, Weston's darkroom had nothing in it but a tray and a light bulb dangling from the ceiling by its cord. in contrast to Adams' "factory" (as Weston liked to call it) or my Macintosh and piles of software, the simplicity is a beautiful thing. And there's a lot less to distract you from just getting on with your work.

    The advantage of having a digital file rather than a printed image to go off of is quite nice for future correcting/knowledge/advances/etc
    for me there are two primary advantages to digital ink printing:

    1) control

    2) the simple fact it's a technology in the early stages of its dominance, so there are many more years of research and development and improvements forthcoming.

    this is in contrast to silver materials, which have come to the end of their age of dominance. i trust (or at least hope) that these materials will still be with us for a long time, but since they're serving more and more of a niche market, we can't count on the kind of attention from the manufacturers that we got back in the golden days of the process. my old paper was discontinued along with many others. chances are good the same would happen to any new silver paper i switch to. it's a frustrating disruption, and one i'd like to put off dealing with again for as long as possible.

  2. #32

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    Re: Contact vs. Digital print AND scanners for large format...

    Quote Originally Posted by paulr View Post
    this is in contrast to silver materials, which have come to the end of their age of dominance. i trust (or at least hope) that these materials will still be with us for a long time, but since they're serving more and more of a niche market, we can't count on the kind of attention from the manufacturers that we got back in the golden days of the process. my old paper was discontinued along with many others. chances are good the same would happen to any new silver paper i switch to. it's a frustrating disruption, and one i'd like to put off dealing with again for as long as possible.
    We should point out that Ilford is currently marketing a silver paper designed for printing from digital files. Elevator Digital in Toronto prints with this paper. It is an interesting way to use Photoshop for tonal corrections and still produce a silver print by wet processing.

    Many persons involved in pt./pd. and other forms of alternative printing essentially do the same thing, i.e. prepare a digital file, print a negative on OHP, and use that negative to expose the print, which is then wet processed same as if it had been exposed with a traditional in-camera negative.

    Sandy

  3. #33
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    Re: Contact vs. Digital print AND scanners for large format...

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    It is an interesting way to use Photoshop for tonal corrections and still produce a silver print by wet processing.
    sure ... and this seems like the way the majority of c-printers are working now (lightjet machines, etc.).

    i think the hibrid approaches are especially exciting ... digital files ending up as platinum prints, film images ending up as holograms, or whatever. my cameras are older than i am, but i'm currently printing using a digital process. these prints hang side by side with prints made on eastern european chlorobromide papers developed in 80 year old formulas. i think it's all pretty cool.

  4. #34

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    Re: Contact vs. Digital print AND scanners for large format...

    Quote Originally Posted by paulr View Post

    i think the hibrid approaches are especially exciting ... digital files ending up as platinum prints, film images ending up as holograms, or whatever. my cameras are older than i am, but i'm currently printing using a digital process. these prints hang side by side with prints made on eastern european chlorobromide papers developed in 80 year old formulas. i think it's all pretty cool.
    I completely agree. I have been printing with alternative processes for more than 25 years, but the hybrid approach has resulted in a significant bump in both the quality and productivity of my work.

    And BTW, there is a hybrid site for discussions about this type of photography. Interestingly enough, it was put up by the same person who started APUG.

    See http://www.hybridphoto.com/forums/

    Sandy

  5. #35
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    Re: Contact vs. Digital print AND scanners for large format...

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    And BTW, there is a hybrid site for discussions about this type of photography. Interestingly enough, it was put up by the same person who started APUG.
    ha! i bet he did it to give impure sons of bitches like us someplace else to go!

  6. #36

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    Re: Contact vs. Digital print AND scanners for large format...

    This thread answered my question, even though I didn't ask it! I'll buy a "consumer" flatbed scanner for now, since 16X20 is about biggest any international exhibition accpets, and for any occasional larger prints I can always use a "professional" tp scan it.

  7. #37
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    Re: Contact vs. Digital print AND scanners for large format...

    David,

    I hope you read closely before making that decision. 1) If your negatives and transparencies have either a wide tonal range and/or a lot of shadow detail then the consumers scanners won't compare to the high-end scanners an the differences become more and more obvious as you print larger. Granted they are barely noticeable at 8x10 or 11x14, especially when the print is mounted under glass, but they are there. They do start to become more visible at 16x20. 2) If your intent is printing for exhibition why would you want to settle for less than the best possible solution?

  8. #38

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    Re: Contact vs. Digital print AND scanners for large format...

    Oren was so right when he spoke of contact prints. For me, they glow and do feel almost 3 dimensional.

  9. #39

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    Re: Contact vs. Digital print AND scanners for large format...

    I agree with Ted on this one. Get a better scanner, or buy good scans from someone who has a scanning business and will deliver personal service. (OK, like myself, but not necessarily myself, as there are a good number of excellent scanner operators out there.)

    As to contact prints - I used to make them. Then back in the 70's I discovered platinum. The matt surface of fine art papers didn't reflect light off the print - and this combined with the elongated tonal range made for a far more three-dimensional print.

    When I tried digital printing I was floored - I could still use 100% rag fine art papers and the tonal range possible was even longer than platinum. Of course, there are a bunch of particulars. One has to know how to get a great scan, then know enough about Photoshop to make the right corrections (most photog's don't) and then you have to have the right equipment and materials to make a great print. I would use Hahnemule paper, or Crane's Portfolio Rag - and I would use Jon Cone's ink in a printer. You can't make a great black and white print with color ink (you can make an ok one). Then you have to have the right profile - one can't "just do it" - there is a lot of knowledge and testing required.

    However, I don't think darkroom prints can compare to a great inkjet print from a great printer. Contact-printed or not. Of course, this is a subjective statement. I happen to love the look of the fine art papers. I have an image where I have an example of a contact print (Azo in Amidol), a platinum print and an inkjet print. The silver print is not even in the ballpark, and the inkjet is just a little better (and mostly different) than the paltinum print.

    However, if someone loves the look of darkroom paper - then nothing else should do...

    Lenny

    EigerStudios

  10. #40

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    Re: Contact vs. Digital print AND scanners for large format...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny Eiger View Post
    However, I don't think darkroom prints can compare to a great inkjet print from a great printer. Contact-printed or not. Of course, this is a subjective statement. I happen to love the look of the fine art papers. I have an image where I have an example of a contact print (Azo in Amidol), a platinum print and an inkjet print. The silver print is not even in the ballpark, and the inkjet is just a little better (and mostly different) than the paltinum print.

    EigerStudios
    that's because most contact prints are done without any sort of adjustments, so they look realistic but boring. a contact print can be made to look exactly like an inkjet print (the converse is also true) by adjusting contrast, sharpening, bringing out shadow detail, etc. most adjustments you can do in Photoshop you can also do in the darkroom, but people just don't do it.

    so the digital print has been adjusted while the wet print has not, do you think this is a fair comparison? contact prints and inkjets look exactly the same if adjusted, and with a magnifying glass you'll see that the contact print would have more resolution, though not as much as the original film. to me, the slide film is the most impressive to behold, though, especially when backlit.

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