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Thread: Depressing Statement re Film

  1. #71

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    Re: Depressing Statement re Film

    Jim, Ilford will always have problems while the management/skivvies or whatever they're self opinionated employees are called. They even alienate film users in their home market. The future lies in the east!
    Pete.

  2. #72

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    Re: Depressing Statement re Film

    Oh my! What a long, strange thread this has been!
    "I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority"---EB White

  3. #73

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    Re: Depressing Statement re Film

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard K. View Post
    LOL I'd like to hear Clay or Sal say that they can live with it! ...
    Clay will have to speak for himself, but I can certainly live with it.

    My 6.5x8.5 Ebony/Lotus adventure was embarked upon with full understanding that I'd be paying a high price for the nonrecurring costs. Even at that time, Hiromi was unwilling to lower his quote per camera for quantity 2 -- there was another person (not Clay) who was considering ordering simultaneously. I'm not sure what annual order volume might convince Ebony to eliminate "custom" status and reduce price to the vicinity of what it charges for an SV810. Perhaps Ian Wilson might be able to share that with you off line.

    The greatest reaction I have to all this recent 6.5x8.5 activity, including Fotoman holders and possible Chamonix cameras, is elation. All you folks are going to be purchasing film! That will keep me and a Rotatrim from having to cut down 8x10 in the dark for many years' worth of Ilford special order periods. It might even convince Simon Galley to offer 6.5x8.5 Delta 100 next time.

    Yeah, I can live with it. Even if you were suddenly able to get an Ebony for less than the cost of one of its 4x5s!

  4. #74
    おせわに なります! Andrew O'Neill's Avatar
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    Re: Depressing Statement re Film

    I'm not even going to touch the anti-Canadian issue ...
    anti-Canadian issue??? Now that's the funniest thing I've heard all day. You Yanks are soooo jealous, aren't ya?

  5. #75
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Depressing Statement re Film

    My lab still prints by hand and by Durst Lambda on to all sorts of traditional media.
    I have a 11x14 mint condition Deveere colour enlarger just waiting to print some 11x14 negs.
    We are actually increasing the size of our darkrooms to accomodate large mural prints , funny we are getting more and more requests and right now I am in the middle of making 30 mural tritoned prints for our exhibition and promotion needs.
    Andre Laradeo*Dmax* has joined with me here in Toronto to produce very large hand and digital fibre murals as well as colour. We are working from film and files daily onto various wet processes.
    We also print large format Epson inkjet but I do prefer the wet prints over the ink, but with that said I would for specific projects nothing beats the ink print.
    Film based printing is a shrinking market for sure but if one has a strong enough sphincter and the guts to hold onto the wet side of things the work gravitates to the last labs standing.
    We just purchased a 40x60 hot press for the larger prints and combined with an 40x60 auto mat cutter we are able to make a profit with silver mural prints.
    Being in Toronto helps as the rent is bearable compared to the larger markets, and you do need a lot of space to be competent fibre mural printing.
    I do consider colour hand prints from artist who are serious and willing to go the distance in producing a show.* it definately is harder to make hand prints vs lambda prints* but we do both for our client base.
    I know of at least 10 labs still willing to work on an enlarger as well as a laser device, this may change as the owner/operator moves on in years , but right now I think there are a lot of options.
    I have been working my whole professional life to be able to do this and am extremely happy to be doing so now and in the future.

    One thing that has not changed for us, I definately prefer to work with the Artist face to face rather than FTP as lunch bag letdown, or our inability to read the artist vision via the internet is a real pain in the ass. Working this way really takes a lot of patience and wilingness to figure out how we work together over long distances. So unfortunately for long term relationships between printer/photographer a visit to Toronto is vital at some point.

    *Only in Canada you say*


    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge Gasteazoro View Post
    You know of any lab that is hand printing from LF negatives at these sizes? I don't, at least not in color. I know of a couple which print from 8x10 and 12x20 negatives in specially made enlargers, but they only do B&W and I am sure there are plenty which print from 4x5 negs onto B&W. As I understand it all of the labs making color prints at these sizes are using lightjet and chromira machines from digital files.

  6. #76
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Depressing Statement re Film

    I am pretty sure Ed Burtynskys lab Toronto Image Works does Roberts prints on their 50inch Chromira printer.
    They would be RA4 colour prints from digital files.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Tjugen View Post
    The lab I mentioned makes "hand prints" - they use a HUGE horizontal enlarger.

    "This case" referred to Robert Burley, whose text and pictures set off this whole thread.

    "Chromogenic print" usually refers to the RA-4 process for paper, not C-41 which is a film negative process.

  7. #77
    westernlens al olson's Avatar
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    Re: Depressing Statement re Film

    Film is not dead.

    I view recent reports that film sales have leveled off at 25% of what they were at their peak as a positive sign. This reduction of film market may not be enough for the business model of a huge corporation like Kodak, but it is a great opportunity for smaller companies.

    We have seen a number of competitors surface in recent years. It is true that some of the film emulsions like Technical Pan and Kodak's IR sheet surfaces have disappeared. But in fact, we still have many times the film and paper choices than we had 50 years ago.

    More and more serious photographers are venturing into large format. I, myself, returned to the fold about 6 years ago after a hiatus of 40 years. Baby-boomers who want to do fine art photography in their retirement are buying large format equipment. A sheet of 8x10 has surface area similar to a 36-exposure roll of 35mm film, so even if the LF photographer only exposes 2 or three sheets at a time, there is a better return for the manufacturer than selling a roll of 35mm for 36 exposures.

    I currently have an 8x10, three 4x5s, and two 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 cameras. Prices on ebay for the lenses and cameras that I purchased five or six years ago have nearly doubled.

    In a View Camera interview with Ron Wisner, I believe, he mentioned that annual sales had doubled (2003 to 2004 IIRC). Elsewhere, there has been mention that the number of LF camera manufacturers worldwide has doubled over the past 10 years.

    Three years ago I could not find 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheet film from anyone. The only manufacturer, Ilford, had ceased production. Now Ilford's HP5 is back, Efke is producing it in three different ISOs as is ARISTO.edu.

    These are all indicators that the LF market is growing, not diminishing.

    Despite the difficulty of obtaining film, paper, and chemicals locally, I believe that the growing interest in LF photography will keep film alive for years to come.
    al

  8. #78

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    Re: Depressing Statement re Film

    Does Ilford produce color film?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bose View Post
    I'm not even going to touch the anti-Canadian issue ...

    Just buy Ilford sheet film, give that company enough business to keep it viable and guess what, they'll stay in business.

    I'm slowly moving my film needs away from Kodak who'll probably stop making films because they're share holders demand a better dividend. So screw them.

    BUY ILFORD, KEEP THEM IN BUSINESS AND WE"LL HAVE FILM FOR DECADES TO COME !!!

  9. #79

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    Re: Depressing Statement re Film

    How do you find the classic camera myspace group?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Moat View Post
    Hello Richard,

    There is a Classic Camera group very active on MySpace that is mostly under 35. If you know where to look, there are many younger people who enjoy using film. In southern California, I see more baby boomers with D-SLRs, because these are the people who can afford those. Younger individuals might own a camera phone, but they will rarely have the spare cash for a D-SLR. Younger people are discovering the great deals on "old school" cameras and film.

    It seems all too easy for older people to dismiss those younger than them. It might be too convenient to place the problems upon those younger than you. However, those that do not make the simple assumptions might find some surprises. We are at least a generation away from those who might not understand film, if that ever really does happen.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    A G Studio

  10. #80
    All metric sizes to 24x30 Ole Tjugen's Avatar
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    Re: Depressing Statement re Film

    Quote Originally Posted by Natasa Stojsic View Post
    Is there a link to Forstöringsateljeen Lab in Sweden?
    http://www.forstoringsateljen.se/

    I had an "e" too many in the name. Swedish and Norwegian are just different enough to be confusing...

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