Affordable printer for digital negatives

[LesleyNowlin]

Are you using the QTR driver or the Epson driver? That makes a difference, I suspect.

Based on all of these posts, I will try using the QTR driver with the P600 tomorrow and see if it works. But I just used the QTR driver on the Artisan 1430, and it helps big time! Thanks for the suggestion, Michael!
And I will also try using the "sandwich" idea...with double sided tape.

[LesleyNowlin]

I have a P800 that I have done a little testing with digital negatives for Pt/Pd—it is a great printer but personally, i think too much printer for negatives alone if you are not going to print 16-inch wide negatives. Even then, a second hand 3800-3880 converted to the new PiezoDN system might be a better bet (you might need to tweak the curves a bit though).

If you are looking to get with minimal expense, then the 1430 converted to Piezography selenium inks can be a good option if you use a leader sheet to prevent the pickup/feed roller from scuffing the surface of the transparency material (and you will still need to work out the pizza wheels though). The nice thing is that you can use any number of different shades you want by using the EZ fill keys and capsules without wasting too much ink changing from one set up to another. I've used as few as 4 and as many as 6 shades for negatives with that printer for Pt/Pd and Pure Pd prints, and am testing it with Lodima/Azo more next week (the 3800 with 5-6 inks works well, but I'm hoping the smaller dots in the 1430 will be better for gelatin silver). In any case, I did find that I need to print on Ultra PremiumOHP—Inkpress and Premium OHP both bleed with that much ink.

I'm looking into getting the selenium inks from Piezography soon for the 1430. I couldn't get the P600 to work, but still working on it from suggestions today. I did notice that when printing (Ultra PremiumOHP) on the 1430 that a scratch of sorts appears in the middle after it's completed. Is that the pickup/feeder roller doing that? or the pizza wheels like you said? could you please tell me how to use a leader sheet? I'm not sure if this scratch is going to show up in my Pt/Pd prints. Thank you, Richard!

[lucasleroy]

Folks,

I have a P800 printer here, but I haven't tried to print a negative with it because I decided to keep my old 4800 and convert it to black-only tuned for digital negatives. That printer is working really, really well, and I'm having great success with it.

However, there are a few things that I learned long, long ago (starting with the old 2000P printer) that my be helpful with the P600 and also the P800.

The first is that some people used to sandwich a sheet of film with a sheet of paper to get the old printers to print properly. You then have to be careful that the printer can handle the thickness of the sandwich, or you may get head strikes and banding. Not sure if the P600/800 can handle the thickness. I believe the P800 should be able to.

Second, the Epson settings can be difficult. Some of the settings are specifically not for thick paper, and other ones are. Depending on the driver you are using, you may have problems with the printer getting it to accept and print on the film if there is a mismatch in the type of paper and the print driver settings. I strongly recommend that anyone trying to do digital negatives investigate QTR for printing. It avoids these problems mostly, and ultimately gives you much finer control over your negative than you can achieve using the normal Epson drivers.

Since I have a P800, I can do some tests, but I won't do extensive tests with the Epson driver, simply because I don't use the printer that way. If anyone wants me to try, let me know, and I'll see about putting a few sheets through the printer as tests.


---Michael

Thank you, if you can try just one printing with QTR, at least to know that it works without using the sandwich method (if i buy a new printer i want it to work without any tricks)? I already know it works for some people but the P600 works for some and doesn't for others so..
Also as you're a piezo user it would be interesting to compare both workflow, I wonder if the difference in tones (and maybe artefact?) would be noticeable? But that might too many tests so you really don't have too

I have a P800 that I have done a little testing with digital negatives for Pt/Pd—it is a great printer but personally, i think too much printer for negatives alone if you are not going to print 16-inch wide negatives. Even then, a second hand 3800-3880 converted to the new PiezoDN system might be a better bet (you might need to tweak the curves a bit though).

If you are looking to get with minimal expense, then the 1430 converted to Piezography selenium inks can be a good option if you use a leader sheet to prevent the pickup/feed roller from scuffing the surface of the transparency material (and you will still need to work out the pizza wheels though). The nice thing is that you can use any number of different shades you want by using the EZ fill keys and capsules without wasting too much ink changing from one set up to another. I've used as few as 4 and as many as 6 shades for negatives with that printer for Pt/Pd and Pure Pd prints, and am testing it with Lodima/Azo more next week (the 3800 with 5-6 inks works well, but I'm hoping the smaller dots in the 1430 will be better for gelatin silver). In any case, I did find that I need to print on Ultra PremiumOHP—Inkpress and Premium OHP both bleed with that much ink.

Thank you, the problem with second hands pinter is that they're quite expensive(a 3880 costs 650euros), at least here in France and there is no warranty so that's why i was more into buying a new epson SC P800, but the piezography system seems to have really nice results so i wonder which differences i would have between a 1430 (called 1500W in France) with piezo and a SC P800 with epson Ink.

[LesleyNowlin]

Really looking forward to trying this new PiezoDN!!!! http://piezodn.inkjetmall.com Doesn't work on the P600 or P800 yet, but it does on the Artisan 1430...will try it as soon as it comes out!

[wager123]

I don't use QTR but the Epson driver on my P800 for digital neg's

[Randy]

I have been thinking about digital negs lately. I don't have a decent inkjet printer (gave up several years ago out of frustration) but have a small HP just for home / office use. Anyway, I converted a picture file to B&W neg and printed it on an 8X10 sheet of fixed-out Xray film. Looks like it might make a decent cyanotype.

[sanking]

I know of several persons who used the P800 for printing digital negatives and have not heard of any complaints so far about loading Pictorico. Also, based on several reports the UV blocking of the P800 inks seems higher than that of the Epson K3 inks so it is seems possible that you could get by with less ink for the same density range, thus reducing the possibility of pizza wheel marks. I would personally definitely recommend use of QTR with the P800 as you will have far more control than with the Epson driver. For those who don't understand the difference in the two drivers, QTR allows you to control the ink deposits from 0% - 100% of all the inks in the printer, the Epson driver does not allow for this type of control. QTR requires a steeper learning control, but the end results do warrant the investment of time IMO compared to printing with the Epson driver.

At this point in time it is not possible to use third-party inks (Cone, for example) in the P800, though that may change in the next few months.

IMO the Artisan 1430, with a Cone all gray inkset driven with QTR, is the best value at this time in a new printer for making digital negatives. Quality is very high with this printer due to the small picoliter size, though the paper feed mechanism and overall build of this printer is well below that of the P600 and P800 models.

Anyone who is very serious about digital negatives shoulder consider one of the large carriage professional models, such as the Epson 4800/4880, 7800/7880 and 9800/9880. Quality of the build is in general much better than with smaller printers, and these printers also use a suction mechanism to guide the film rather than the pesky spiked wheels in the smaller printers, which cause marks in many cases.

Some of the Canon and HP printers can be used to make digital negatives, but none of these printers can be driven with QTR, so I would personally avoid them.

Sandy

[lucasleroy]

So, i was thinking, would it work using that kind of film https://www.manomano.fr/bache-de-pei...OyoaAlYz8P8HAQ
on the back of the transparencies ? it would protect it from the wheel and maybe give it a little bit of more density and fix the problem of the sc p600 which doesn't see any paper?
Sandy, thank you for your post which gives a good view of the situation, what would be the difference between a epson 1430 (piezo) and the P800 in your opinion?

[Tin Can]

@Sandy King,

Thanks for a concise recommendation of digital negative printers.

[sanking]

So, i was thinking, would it work using that kind of film https://www.manomano.fr/bache-de-pei...OyoaAlYz8P8HAQ
on the back of the transparencies ? it would protect it from the wheel and maybe give it a little bit of more density and fix the problem of the sc p600 which doesn't see any paper?
Sandy, thank you for your post which gives a good view of the situation, what would be the difference between a epson 1430 (piezo) and the P800 in your opinion?

Considerable difference in price between the 1430 (about $300 USD) and the Epson P800 ($1300 USD). That would be important to some. Then, you get a 17" wide negative with the P800, limited to 13" with the 1430. Third, you would be able to make digital negatives with the Epson inkset of the P8000, using either the Epson driver or QTR, with the 1430 you would need to run QTR with a third party ink all gray ink set to get sufficient blocking density for most alternative processes. Still, if one is looking to get into digital negatives as inexpensively as possible the 1430 is probably the way to go, assuming you would want to use QTR for maximum control negative production. And you have something of a turn key system with the new PiezoDN system for the 1430 so you don't have to write your own profiles.

BTW, the pizza wheel guides contact OHP on the ink side so the protector you mention would not help in this regard. Unfortunately marks from the pizza wheels are going to be an issue with all of the Epson photo printers, including the 3880 and P800. The only solution I found was to remove the wheels, which may or may not introduce other problems.

Sandy