Jon Cone on Carbon Piezography

[Lenny Eiger]

You can use QTR with the Epson K3 set to make carbon-only prints - per recent release notes, the "warm" profile uses "K, LK, and LLK inks i.e. carbon only".

The catch is that, like other carbon-only inksets, it produces a distinctive, warm tonal scale. I mostly don't care for it myself - I prefer something more neutral for most of my pictures. Unfortunately, so far as I know there is at present no inkset that offers both maximum stability and tonal neutrality.

Oren,
I use both a carbon sepia and a selenium tone ink set from Cone. I mix them for a neutral. It's a warm neutral, to be sure, but the selenium on its own is very cool, not warm at all...

Lenny

[Oren Grad]

I use both a carbon sepia and a selenium tone ink set from Cone. I mix them for a neutral. It's a warm neutral, to be sure, but the selenium on its own is very cool, not warm at all...

Understood. I can get a quite neutral tone out of the Epson K3 inkset with QTR as well using a different profile, with the advantages of QTR's superior detail rendering and tonal smoothness compared with Epson ABW. But neither these nor the corresponding Cone inksets match the stability of a carbon-only approach, and the carbon-only "look" isn't right for everyone or everything. Those were my only points here.

No slight intended to Jon Cone here - his insights and his products greatly expand the scope of creative possibility for a craftsman who is willing to put in the effort to master them.

[Tyler Boley]

...
No slight intended to Jon Cone here - his insights and his products greatly expand the scope of creative possibility for a craftsman who is willing to put in the effort to master them.

quick interjection to dispel any prevailing misperceptions.. the article did discuss many complex approaches to working with ink. However the standard K7 setups readily available are plug and play and sinple to master. I had a class of beginners printing to a little 1400 with the SE inkset in 5 minutes.

[Tyler Boley]

Tyler,

All of the pure carbon pigments I have used to make carbon tissue have been on the warm side. I like warm prints, and often add a bit of burnt umber or sienna to make the color of my prints even warmer...
...
I really enjoyed reading about your work. Sounds very cutting edge to me.
...
Sandy

I too like warm prints, and one reason my setup is variable is that I, like you, tend to hue each image as I see fit. Of course making various tissues to try and find each images sweet spot is way more involved, no question.
Being cutting edge for me is not an end in itself. I've been working with this setup for 9 years now, and it feels very second nature, as I'm sure your process does to you. It did migrate from a 9600 to a 9880, but it's the same otherwise. I just found myself there trying to get the prints I wanted.
Technique and tools are of great interest when it comes to craft perfection, finding and pushing the possibilities... but if you've ever watched Oscar Peterson (RIP) play, technical ability beyond comprehension, that stuff evaporates, all his tools are at hand instinctually, and he's just talking to you even if you don't know the language.
Countless other examples... sure you know what I mean.
Tyler

[Nathan Potter]

Tyler, so well said. Craft perfection at a higher level goes beyond what can be communicated. It almost seems to become embedded in ones DNA after some years of trial and error, and some successes. The art form doesn't much matter and certainly the photographic technique doesn't matter. But the keen observer will see something in the end result which will make their hair stand on end and bring tears to their eyes, especially when viewed within the framework of their own efforts. Such is the moving target of inkjet printing. Exciting stuff on its own I find.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[sanking]

quick interjection to dispel any prevailing misperceptions.. the article did discuss many complex approaches to working with ink. However the standard K7 setups readily available are plug and play and sinple to master. I had a class of beginners printing to a little 1400 with the SE inkset in 5 minutes.

Yes, it is amazing how simple it can be to make good monochrome prints with QTR and a Piezography in set. It is really plug and play, no need to mix inks, etc.

But if for any reason you want to keep a color ink set in your printer, it is also very easy to make nice monochrome prints with QTR and either the Epson K3 or Cone color ink sets.

Basically, QTR is a great bargain if you want to make monochrome prints. You can download and try it for free, and if you want to be a legal owner the cost is only about $50. It is a very powerful driver that I much prefer to the Epson driver for either making inkjet prints or digital negatives.

Sandy

[Tyler Boley]

yes I should have added that at the same class, people were printing B&W with OEM ink out of a 3800 in 5 minutes as well. I was just trying to dispel the idea that the plug and play alternative ink options require some masterful extra effort, those days are long past.
Roy should get some kind of award for QTR, such a powerful tool.
Tyler

[D. Bryant]

but if you've ever watched Oscar Peterson (RIP) play, technical ability beyond comprehension, that stuff evaporates, all his tools are at hand instinctually, and he's just talking to you even if you don't know the language.
Tyler

+1 for Peterson. FWIW, he was also an amateur photographer.

[MHMG]

A glance at the page which shows the ratings of various papers, suggests that 140 is roughly average for the samples tested. There are some Canon and Epson results which go up to a rating of 240.

According to the document, a print with a rating of 100, placed in a "South-facing window in U.S.A. , e.g., storefront display with photos directly facing window" yields a display time of 2.3 years.

Many of the store-front art galleries I see here in Massachusetts exhibit paintings in the window, just as jewelry stores display gems and watches for sale. I've seen store-front portrait studios which do the same, but I have no idea how long those photos stay on display. I presume that a well-processed Pt/Pd or Carbon print could stay there a very long time, and fade no more than a gold ring.

Please correct me if I am mistaken

Ken, the average of 140 Megalux hours with max of 240 are values in the "Status" column in the AaI&A database. The status column tells how much exposure has accumulated in ongoing tests for each sample. The accumulated dose is not a performance rating. It's simply a reporting of how far the test has gone in terms of accumulated exposure to date. For the AaI&A Conservation display ratings which do allow a quick product performance comparision without having to download the reports, you will want to check the values in the Conservation Display rating column. The Conservation Display rating (CDR) indicates the range of light exposure that each sample tolerates while remaining in very good to excellent condition with little or no noticeable fade even though some fade can be detected with instrumentation. Because the CDR is tracking very early stage fading and because higher doses are then necessary to observe more easily noticeable fade and because fading curves are often non linear, AaI&A always takes the exposure doses on the sample well beyond the amounts needed to produce the CDR. Additionally, color and tonal accuracy scores are listed in all reports at uniform exposure intervals (expressed in megalux hour units), This information enables the end-user to compare and contrast product performance at many other accumulated exposure levels, even doses that push some samples well into the severely faded state. You will find examples where one product might actually do better than another in the early stages of fade, but then worse as more advanced stages of fading occur at even higher exposure doses.

I hope this explanation helps. The CDR column in the AaI&A lightfade database is a good "executive summary" for the early stage fade resistance which is what I believe is more important to serious printmakers, collectors, and curators. Again, it represents the light exposure grace period where excellent image color and tone has been retained. To further translate the CDR to "years on display" Ken has got the right idea in his example. Look in the table in each report and choose a descriptive light level that suits your anticipated display condition. Or take some measurements with an inexpensive light meter for an even more accurate estimate of your print's average light level on display. As Ken correctly noticed in his example, when the light level gets high, high exposure doses accumulate rapidly. At about 228 average lux for 12 hours per days "megalux hours" = years (.e.g, 100 Mluxhrs will accrue in 100 years on display), but in bright "front window" display areas, average lux levels are much much higher, and the time to reach a given exposure dose goes down proportionately (Exposure = intensity x time, ie. the classic Reciprocity Law of photography).

The huge variability in "average light levels" on display is why AaI&A expresses its Conservation Display ratings in megalux hours and doesn't extrapolate the test results to rated "display years" as other labs do. We leave that up to the end user to estimate. It not hard to do using the reciprocity law or a table of values as seen in any AaI&A report, and the end user is in a much better position to decide what that average light level is likely to be.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

[Ken Lee]

Thank you for clarifying.

I had a fresh look at the Light Fade Test Results, with attention to the CDR numbers (Conservation Display Ratings).

I see that in rough terms, the range goes from roughly 1 to 150, with the highest rating given to the HP Designjet Z3100 24" + Crane Museo Rag paper: 152 Megalux. Left in the "south-facing window", such prints would exhibit little fading until after (152/100 * 2.3) = 3.5 years.

What does it mean that the rating for Epson Stylus Pro 9800 with Cone Piezotone™ (Carbon Sepia with Portfolio Black) inks on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag paper, has a CDR of "9-140" ? What does the 9 designate ? Most of the ranges we see in the test results are closer: 65-87, 80-88, etc.

Members can view the detailed reports, and compare original versus exposed color patches (Man, are you ever thorough!). Looking at the test of the above-mentioned HP printer after 180 Megalux hours, it's remarkable how little difference there is to the naked eye. On the other hand, doing the same for the Piezotone test, differences are apparent at lower numbers. Is that because it is easier for the eye to discern fading of patches in monochrome than in a wide range of colors ?

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