150mm APO Sironar W -- Wow!

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

" it doesn't cover 5x7 at all. That's the one area where the 150mm APO Sironar-W is "superior" to the smaller, lighter, less expensive 135mm APO Sironar-N."

The Apo Sironar N 150mm most certainly does cover 5x7. The factory specifies it as covering a 214mm circle which just allows 3mm and 2mm of shift on 5x7.

Bob,

If you read what I actually wrote, you'll notice I specifically said the 135mm APO Sironar-N doesn't cover 5x7. I never mentioned the 150mm APO Sironar-N.

The Apo Sironar S 150mm that replaced the W covers a 231mm circle which allows for 17mm of rise and 13mm of shift on 5x7 in a relatively small and light lens.

The Apo Sironar/Apo Sironar W 150mm covered a 252mm circle allowing for 33mm of rise and 26mm of shift.

Which is exactly what I wrote above when I stated: "The extra fve degrees of coverage provided twice as much front rise on 5x7 as the 150mm APO Sironar-S I had been using."

While the 150mm APO Sironar-N technically covers 5x7, if you want to use movements forget it. 2 - 3mm of front rise is insignificant. Even the 13-17mm of front rise provided by the 150mm APO Sironar-S, as I stated above, was insufficient for my needs on 5x7.

Finally, the 150mm APO Sironmar-S did not replace the 150mm APO Sironar-W. Both lenses coexisited for 5 - 6 years. Perhaps slow sales of the 150mm APO Sironar-W compared to the more popular 150mm APO Sironar-S lead to the eventual discontinuation of the 150mm APO Sironar-W, but it was not replaced by the 150mm APO Sironar-S.

Kerry

[Bob Salomon]

" the 150mm APO Sironmar-S did not replace the 150mm APO Sironar-W. Both lenses coexisited for 5 - 6 years. "

The factory specifically announced to the distributors that the W series was replaced by the S series. Yes they were both sold at the same time for a while but once stocks of the W needed to be replaced by new manufacturing runs the W was discontinued and the S was the replacement.

Today all of the N (except for the 150 and 210) and all W lenses are no longer manufactured except when one commits to a total production run of lenses as Greiner did with the 300mm W recently.

[archivue]

" the 150mm APO Sironar-S did not replace the 150mm APO Sironar-W. Both lenses coexisited for 5 - 6 years. "

and there was in the same catalogue...
N supposed to be a good standard lens
S supposed to be the new terrific standard lens
W supposed to provide more coverage
but it wasn"t clear about the comparison between the S and the W except for coverage... at list in the french sinar catalogue !

[Oren Grad]

In the 9/93 "Rodenstock Lenses for Large Format Cameras" brochure, the three Apo-Sironar series are characterized as follows:

N: "the all-round lens for the professional photographer"

S: "a lens for universal use which has been modified to provide the highest image reproduction quality"

W: "offers such a large image circle diameter that the lens can serve as a medium wide-angle unit for the next larger film format and still permit reasonable shifts... As it is primarily intended for studio use, performance has been optimized for a 1:10 scale of reproduction, but with no noticeable loss at infinity, either"

There's more, but that captures the respective market positioning in a nutshell.

Basically:

N is the choice for economy

S is the choice for maximum image quality across the nominal image format (i.e., when it serves as a "normal" focal length) plus extended movements

W is the choice where maximum coverage or movement is required, especially in studio applications

[Oren Grad]

Arne -

Thanks for posting the MTF for the 210 N/S/W. I'd already saved the superimposed curves from the 300 N/S/W from the PN thread a while back. Would you happen to have the corresponding data for the 150 W? I've got the N and S data, but not the W.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Yes they were both sold at the same time for a while but once stocks of the W needed to be replaced by new manufacturing runs the W was discontinued and the S was the replacement.

Bob,

Are you saying once the APO Sironar-S series was announced, no more APO Sironar-W lenses were produced (until the recent special production run) and they were just sold from existing stock until they were all gone?

Kerry

[Sheldon N]

I know this is heresy to compare these lenses - but isn't the old single coated Fujinon 150mm f/5.6 an 80 degree lens with an image circle within 5-10mm of the Super Symmar HM/APO Sironar W lenses?

Those can be had for around $150-200 used and would make a great little wide angle for 5x7.

It's not the latest high tech wonder optic, but I'd bet you'd have a hard time differentiating the results in a double blind test.

[Steve Hamley]

I know this is heresy to compare these lenses - but isn't the old single coated Fujinon 150mm f/5.6 an 80 degree lens with an image circle within 5-10mm of the Super Symmar HM/APO Sironar W lenses?

Those can be had for around $150-200 used and would make a great little wide angle for 5x7.

It's not the latest high tech wonder optic, but I'd bet you'd have a hard time differentiating the results in a double blind test.

Shame on you for bursting the bubble! it isn't about lenses, it's about photographs.

Steve

[Colin Graham]

I know this is heresy to compare these lenses - but isn't the old single coated Fujinon 150mm f/5.6 an 80 degree lens with an image circle within 5-10mm of the Super Symmar HM/APO Sironar W lenses?

Those can be had for around $150-200 used and would make a great little wide angle for 5x7.

It's not the latest high tech wonder optic, but I'd bet you'd have a hard time differentiating the results in a double blind test.

Ha, was going to say the same thing. It's tiny too, 46mm filters. There was a buy-it-now several months ago for 140 or so that went the distance. I thought about selling my sironar s and getting it. I really like the older single-coated fujinons.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

I know this is heresy to compare these lenses - but isn't the old single coated Fujinon 150mm f/5.6 an 80 degree lens with an image circle within 5-10mm of the Super Symmar HM/APO Sironar W lenses?

Those can be had for around $150-200 used and would make a great little wide angle for 5x7.

It's not the latest high tech wonder optic, but I'd bet you'd have a hard time differentiating the results in a double blind test.

And then there's the 150mm f9 Computar/APO Kyvyttar/Graphic-Kowa triplets. They cover even more than 80 degrees. I've successfully used a 150mm Graphic-Kowa on 4x10 with a bit left over for movements. I bought it unused in barrel mount for $100 and transferred the cells (direct fit) into a Copal Press No. 1 shutter I picked up for $150. Even by the tme I had the scales engraved, my total investment was only about $300.

The tiny 150mm f9 G Claron and 150mm f9 Docter Germinar-W also cover about 80 degrees when used at small stops (f32 and smaller).

Of course, the 150mm APO Sironar-W is a more sophisticated, more modern multicoated design (the Germinar-W is also multicoated). It's over a full stop brighter on the ground glass than these f9 process plasmats. In order to get acceptable performance at infinity, the manufacturers of these lenses suggest they be stopped down to at least f22 (or f16 in the case of the Germinar-W). So, in addition to being faster, the 150mm APO Sironar-W will most likely provide better corner to corner performance between wide open and f16.

I'm not trying to justify the $1700 selling price (I mentioned above that I thought it was ridiculous), but there are certain advantages for certain applications that the 150mm APO Sironar-W has over other 150mm lenses with ~ 80 degrees of coverage. It's my all time perssonal favorite moderate wide angle for the 5x7 format. However, since most of my work is done at f22 or there abouts, I'm perfectly happy to use the 150mm Graphic-Kowa on 4x10 and the little 150mm Germinar-W as my backpacking lens for 4x5 in this focal length. There are certainly options (none current, unfortunately) in 150mm ~80 degree lenses. The 150mm APO Sironar-W is one of the best all around, but there are other options available that will certainly cost a lot less than $1700.

Kerry