Color of large prints

[jim10219]

I would try a section test using the "Photoshop manages colors" selection, applying your correct profile.

That's my next troubleshooting step. The only reason why I don't do that regularly is because I couldn't figure out how to keep Windows from applying profiles to the print jobs anyway. So what I had was Photoshop applying one profile, and then Windows applying the same profile over that one, giving me all kinds of funky colors. So if I go back to trying that route, I'll have to figure out a way to keep Windows from doing that. But first I'll try it without any profiles, probably by going through the "Adobe Color Printer Utility" like I do when making these profiles, since Photoshop won't let me print without some kind of profile (on command anyway).

[jim10219]

Could just be a perception problem. It's well known that small areas of a color look different than large areas of the same color. People find that out all the time when they paint rooms in houses.

For this reason I was taught to make at least one full size proof print. Because the perceptions of the colors, their relationships to each other, saturation, and contrast all are influenced by size.

This would explain your blacks getting darker and your yellows becoming more intense. But it may not explain a color shift like your turquoise sky that came out magenta.

Just to be clear, everything was the same except print size? Small and large print came out of the same roll of paper? Printed on the same day?

One other thing -- did you dry the prints? Inkjet prints are susceptible to changes as they dry (out gas). I started getting much more reliable results when I started drying prints with a hand held hair dryer. Low heat, high fan. The hand supporting the back of the print can feel the change from cool to warm indicating you've driven off most of the water / glycols.

Drying prints visually (and measurably) changes Dmax and contrast on most papers in my experience.

It's definitely not just a perception issue. It's far more dramatic than that. And yes, I literally took that exact same file, resized it using Photoshop, and printed it will all of the same settings. I didn't even reload PS in between. Same roll. One print right after another. Same day, maybe 15 minutes apart. Now, while I didn't dry the prints, I did have one smaller one before and one smaller one after the large print and they both looked nearly identical to each other, so I don't believe it was a drying issue. Obviously the larger image will take longer to dry and colors will shift as they dry. But it shouldn't shift colors to that degree no matter how long it needed to dry.

Thank you all for your help so far. I'll keep messing around with it trying to see if I can narrow down the problem. I'll be sure to post my final results back here when I'm done because I've looked all over the web for an answer to this, and it appears I'm the only one who's run into it. At least every other problem I can find similar to this one has the answer "use an ICC profile".

[Jim Andrada]

Sacrifice a goat to the computer gods??? There are days when I can't think of any other way to deal with the damned things (computers, not goats)

[jim10219]

Sacrifice a goat to the computer gods??? There are days when I can't think of any other way to deal with the damned things (computers, not goats)

I don't have a goat, but I have an old Mac G5...

[Jim Andrada]

Same thing if it'a a virgin.

[jim10219]

Okay. I tried letting photoshop manage my profiles. I get the craziest psychedelic colors when I do. It actually looks pretty cool as an effect, but definitely isn't something I want. My guess is that when I do that, both Epson and PS are trying to apply the same profile. I tried several different ways to turn off color management in the printer drivers, but nothing changes anything. I still get the funky psychedelic colors. I'm convinced the Epson drivers won't let me turn off color management, and won't apply them to large prints. I'm about at my wits end here.

Does anyone know of a good program to print from, or a free rip program? Surely I can't be the only one to have experienced this issue!

[jim10219]

I've been doing some more research on this, and apparently the Epson drivers have issues with files over a specific size (I read, but forgot the pixel count). The usual solution is to just buy a RIP software program (and they like to sell you a server to go with it) to bypass the Epson drivers and gain more control over the printer, but that's another $1,000+ I don't have right now. My guess is that with large files, I'm pretty much given the choice of two profiles at once or none at all. Between the two, none is the obvious answer (due to the psychedelic color thingy from two at once). Or maybe PS isn't interpreting my profile correctly (made with an i1 and Argyle software).

However, it just dawned on me that I can print to a PDF file, instead of a physical printer in the print dialogue! So theoretically, I should be able to open up my files in Photoshop, print to a PDF applying the proper print profile to the file itself (just like you would using a hardware printer), and then open that PDF in another PS window, and print that one choosing "let printer manage colors", which won't apply any new profiles (hopefully), and I can print with just one instance of the correct profile applied (double hopefully)! Then, after I make a million bucks selling giant prints of my carefully profiled photos of blurry and poorly composed, but highly polished turds, I'm gonna get me a good RIP program so I don't have to go through all of this hassle. And if there's any money left over, I'm gonna buy a proper night stand, because this cardboard box next to my bed that I've been using, while fully functional, is a bit of an embarrassing eye sore.

[jim10219]

Well, that didn't work. Apparently the problem isn't two profiles at once. Apparently the problem is Photoshop doesn't read the profile I created correctly. The PDF I created using that printer profile made the PDF take on all of the psychedelic colors that I was getting in the print version. Ugh.

So, now on to plan D: Find a generic profile that will work well enough when the file is too big to use my custom profile. Unfortunately, I'm not using Epson brand paper, and Sihl, the paper I am using, doesn't make profiles for my printer. So I'm just going to have to try a bunch out until I find one that works well enough. At least until I can save up enough money to buy a ski mask, carve a convincing gun out of wood, and rob a bank (I'm kidding... probably).

[Jim Andrada]

Have you tried Adobe Color Print? It definitely bypasses profiles. I think it's basically intended for printing color targets. I only used it to make digital negs so have no idea if it will handle large files. Which leads me to ask if you've tried cutting the print resolution a bit to avoid the problem.

Good luck!

[jim10219]

Have you tried Adobe Color Print? It definitely bypasses profiles. I think it's basically intended for printing color targets. I only used it to make digital negs so have no idea if it will handle large files. Which leads me to ask if you've tried cutting the print resolution a bit to avoid the problem.

Good luck!

I've only tried Adobe Color Print for printing targets. But since I applying the correct profile in the correct way is what I've been trying to do this whole time, I don't think that will do much for me.

I'm also not wanting to decrease the print resolution any. On a file that's marginally too big, it might be a quick work around. But on my larger prints, I don't think I'd be able to cut the resolution down to something acceptable and still remain under the threshold. It does me no good to be able to print a 40"x50" print if I can't print it above 72dpi.

In any case, I found a profile from Epson that works well enough with my paper. I'd say it's about 97% as good as the custom profile I created, and Photoshop doesn't have a problem applying it like it does with my custom profile (which works great when applied directly through the printer drivers on smaller files).

So for now, I think I'm just going to go with this solution and give well enough alone. Two weeks of troubleshooting and research have just about given me an ulcer. Maybe in a year I'm come back to it, but for now, I'm ready to limp off the field, admit defeat, and be grateful I found something that's good enough to get me by.

Thank you all for your help though! You guys have a great community here!