Taking the plunge into ULF ! Building my own...

[Jan Van Hove]

Hi everyone !

After taking my Busch-Pressman D out of the closet to shoot a few sheets of film, I'm hooked on large format again, and this time, it's bad... I'm seriously considering building my own 11x14 camera so I can shoot Ilfochrome and paper negs in-camera for a start into cheap ULF... Eventually i'll gather enough money to get me some film, but for now all I have is a box of 50 sheets of 11x14 ilfochrome paper that just begs to be used !

So, before I start in that wild endeavour I just wanted to ask a few questions, just to be sure that i'm thinking along the right lines, here...

First. I shoot mostly nudes and portraits, but I don't think that I am willing to go with the extra bulk of the extra-long bellows needed to shoot with a 700-800 mm portrait lens at 1:1 magnification... (you did know that 11x14 is the smallest format where you can fit a human head at 1:1 ?), so i'll settle for a shorter bellows, let's say enough for a normal (18") lens at 1:1 magnification, that's about 36" of bellows draw, or 900 mm that leaves the possibility of using longer focals at lower magnifications...

Second. For my main subjects, i don't really need back movements, the front movements on the other hand are critical to get all that nice sheiplung-thing going on, which should be useful with a 400 mm lens that has very narrow depth of field at 1:1...

Third, for a lens, I was thinking about starting with a process-type lens, a 260mm f10 APO-nikkor would do nicely... On the short side for portraits, I agree, but for environmental nudes, it would be perfect, i would just have to find a packard shutter for it and everything would be perfect !

Fourth, Where do I start ? What should I leave to professionals ? Bellows ? Ground-glass back ? Should I cannibalize an old beatten Deardoff for parts ?

The design I was thinking of would be a folding flatbed, fixed back camera, with a single extension bed. I want to keep weight to a reasonable minimum since I am likely going to do some field work with models using that monster. For the same weight saving reason I am thinking about building the camera as vertical only, since 90% of the photos I make are vertical and 99% of the photos I've ever put on gallery walls are verticals also.

I have to perfect my desings (focussing mechanisms, movements, etc...) and look into materials more closely (wood ? aluminium ? ABS ? Cardboard ?) but I'd like to get you ideas and thoughts on the project I am getting myself into...

I'll keep you posted during the next (weeks, months, years.... ?) as this project unfolds, and i'll probably get a section on my website devoted to it...

I am looking forward to your comments and suggestions !

[John Kasaian]

Jan,

If you want an 11x14, have you looked into old Burk & James cameras? They were(at least when I had one) were reasonably priced for ULFs(about $1500) and are nice cameras for studio use with bellows that go on for what seems like yards. Try MidWest Photo. You might even luck out on a Deardorff studio 11x14. It would cost a pretty penny to ship it with the cast iron stand, but they occasionally go for reasonable prices on ebay(Not the 11x14 Field model though!) Examples of either of these cameras might save you some frustration, time, and $$. The biggest drawback to 11x14 I found was getting film holders at anywhere near a reasonable price. Just my 2-cents.--------Cheers!

[Ed Burlew]

If your camera has an interchangeable back then try adding a larger back on to the frame. the back will have to be at the rear most travel and then the stepup back will be a tapered wooden cone structure with the 11x14 gg and film holder in it. then you get to use all you lenses. Try a cobbled up version with cardboard to see if yu can cover 11x14 with this idea.

[Nick_3536]

I wonder if you really need a shutter if you're using paper. Between everything aren't the fast exposures going to be in the multi second range?

[Joe Smigiel]

"First. I shoot mostly nudes and portraits, but I don't think that I am willing to go with the extra bulk of the extra-long bellows needed to shoot with a 700-800 mm portrait lens at 1:1 magnification"

I'm into 11x14 and ULF for exactly the same reasons in terms of subject matter and am building my own 11x14. I also own 2 1/2 others.

The bulk added by a few extra inches of compressed bellows is insignificant with a camera this large. Go for the extra bellows extension. You will regret it if you don't. I had Camera Bellows, Ltd. in England make a custom synthetic black bellows for my DIY 11x14 project. It extends to 52", compresses to less than 3", and is very lightweight. Well worth the investment IMO. I chose Black Walnut and brass for the other materials.

Gear rack and pinions are another part of the camera you probably want to purchase or cannabalize due to the difficulty in machining these parts properly.

"for a lens, I was thinking about starting with a process-type lens, a 260mm f10 APO-nikkor would do nicely... On the short side for portraits, I agree, but for environmental nudes, it would be perfect, i would just have to find a packard shutter for it and everything would be perfect ! "

Make sure the lens will cover the format at the magnification you will use. The normal lens for this focal length is about 18" but some wide-angle designs will work. I have a 210mm Angulon for my setup. It just barely covers at infinity. I don't believe most process lenses under 19" will cover adequately at infinity or thereabouts.

"The design I was thinking of would be a folding flatbed, fixed back camera, with a single extension bed." .

Again, go for the longer extension. At least have the provision for it as an accessory track.

You also mention providing a Packard Shutter. For my design, I wanted to incorporate a Packard that would handle an 18" Verito diffused focus portrait lens. The lens has a rear element that is 4 1/2" in diameter and mounts on a 6" lensboard. The Packard that handles this lens is 8 1/2" square.

Fortunately, this combination also fits on the 11x14 Burke & James camera I acquired last December so I can use it while I continue to build my custom 11x14. It took me over a year to find a B&J at a reasonable price but it was well worth the wait because know other field camera I'm aware of can handle the Packard & Verito combination. (Perhaps the Deardorff field camera can, but I've never seen one of those so I'm not sure. Most modern field cameras have dinky lensboards.)

If you want info on a possible lead for an 11x14 B&J email me off the board & I may be able to direct you to a NYC dealer who had 2 reconditioned B&J cameras in stock last June. (I don't want to mention the name in the posting since I'm not sure that would violate some rule against commercial posting.) He wanted $2,200 for one and $2,800 for the other as I recall. He had them for awhile and may still have them due to the price tag and demand. Other dealers usually have them for around $1,500 but they are fairly rare. Many dealers I contacted last year while searching for mine hadn't seen one in 10 years or so. I picked mine up on eBay. There is also an 11x14 B&J process camera currently listed this week on ebay if you want to cannabalize something for parts.

[Jan Van Hove]

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions...

2500$, 2000$, even 1500$ is way too much for me, considering that i need to get a lens and holder in addition to any parts for my project.

The suggestion to go for a longer bellows now and worry about getting the extension in the camera later is well noted, since the bellows is probably the only piece that i am planning to buy new... (but then again, i haven't cheched into the price for a beast like that...)

I currently have a 4x5, so the idea of a cone - extension back is a little far fetched, even more when you consider that the lensboard of a Busch is barely large enough to fit a copal 1 shutter...

I'll just let my brain digest the input and i'll try to come up with a sensible solution... My current concept is somewhere between the Kodak master view and a Deardoff... I'll have to elaborate more, and will keep you informed on the progress...

[Chad Jarvis]

Not to be a cynic, because I honestly do like the idea of DIY ULF, but there truly is no such thing as cheap ULF. Also, have you ever shot anything larger than 4x5? The jump from 4x5 to 8x10 is a shock, as is the move from 8x10 to 11x14. I can not imagine attempting the transition from 4x5 to 11x14; it's a completely different world. Bigger tripod/head, bigger/heavier film holders, fatter lenses, crazy limitations on depth of field...and if you're printing in platinum, we don't even have to talk about the difference in cost there.

You might want to borrow a friend's 8x10 before taking the plunge. I'm not saying not to do it - I love 11x14. I just think it's better to look before you leap.

[Michael Dowdall]

"Fourth, Where do I start ? What should I leave to professionals ? Bellows ? Ground-glass back ? Should I cannibalize an old beatten Deardoff for parts ?"

Here's a link to the Cameramakers mailing list archive;

http://rosebud.opusis.com/pipermail/cameramakers/

Not sure how to search the archives other than downloading the whole list, but... I've been on this list for over a year now and your questions have come up, with some good replies. There is also a wealth of information of things you might not have thought of yet.

[Frank Petronio]

Take some meds and calm down. If you're not trolling, then get a little more experience with ready-made cameras and then evaluate your options.

[Jan Van Hove]

Frank,

I'm not trolling, I am honestly thinking about this project...

Chad, thanks for the advice about trying 8x10 before jumping into 11x14, I had tought about it, but i don't know anyone in my region shooting in 8x10, and I beleive that 8x10 and 11x14 are different beasts, and if I want to know what 11x14 feels like I have to shoot 11x14...

I plan the whole project as a long-term investment, (I already invested in a tripod sturdy enough to take anything I put onto it (a berlebach UNI 14 tripod), with Manfrotto heavy duty head, that's already 400$ spent on that project...), and I know that I will be spending a lot of money in the next few years on that project, but a one time investment of 2000$ for a old camera body is out of the question for now. With a DIY project, I'll keep myself busy, learn, and produce a much more "meaningful" camera, in my opinion...

I'll need to get my hands on a 11x14 film holder pretty early on in the project to be able to construct the ground glass back... Any of you have one extra holder lying around ?

Talking about holders, do any of you know if 11x14 ilford paper is the exact same size as 11x14 film ? If it's bigger it's no big deal to cut it down, but if it's smaller, I have a problem...