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Thread: used Toyo's

  1. #1
    grumpy & miserable Joseph O'Neil's Avatar
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    used Toyo's

    In my hunt for a new or used field camera to replace my super graphic that I use backpacking, I've noticed that on ebay, used Toyo feild cameras seem to come up a wee bit more often, and sometimes, not always, at what appears to be a decent price - at least compared to new. Other than the fact Toyos seem to have a poorish reputation for use with 90mm and wider lenses due to limited movements, is there something else I am missing?

    I already have a monorail I use for architechual, so a huge range of movements is not what I am after, but I do fond myself wishing for some back movements . All things considered, and seeing some of the poor condition some used cameras are in, not to mention I laways seem to get outbid at the last moment on ebay, I'm at the point of just jumping and buying something all brand new.

    thanks much, and have a good holiday weekend

    joe
    eta gosha maaba, aaniish gaa zhiwebiziyin ?

  2. #2
    Moderator Ralph Barker's Avatar
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    used Toyo's

    I have a Toyo 45AX for 4x5 field work, and have found it to be a nice, sturdy camera. It's certainly not a Technika in terms of design or build precision, but it's probably better than the price would suggest. The only design shortfall I've encountered is the fixed bellows, which limits movements with wide lenses due to bellows compression. For most purposes, it's an excellent metal field camera, however.

    The 45AX has a "reversible" back (release the Graflok bars, remove, rotate, re-attach), as opposed to the "rotating" back of the 45AII. In practice, there is little difference in terms of time consumed by changing orientation. The rotating back adds a half-pound or so in weight and around $500 to the price of the new cameras. Otherwise, they are essentially the same.

  3. #3

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    used Toyo's

    Joe, Have you looked at the Wista SP or VX? It is a metal folder with interchangeable bellows and can take a 90mm lens and give good movements with the standard bellows, albeit with a recessed board. No need to drop the bed with the 90 and has about 12" of bellows. You can also get 900mm of extension bellows and it takes the same lens board as the Linhof. It is well built and weighs about the same as your Super, maybe a tad more. They go on Ebay for about $600-$1000 and a brand new bag bellows just went for $115 on Ebay. I have had mine for about two years now and love it, had a Super before that. The Toyo is probably slightly better built, but not as versatile IMHO.

  4. #4

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    used Toyo's

    I wouldn't say a Toyo A is better built than a metal Wista. Perhaps a bit more rugged because of coarser gearing. But I always though of the Wistas as a modernized Linhof Technika - lighter weight and Japanese manufacturing techniques (bent metal instead of milled).

  5. #5
    Ted Harris's Avatar
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    used Toyo's

    Joe, you said "Other than the fact Toyos seem to have a poorish reputation for use with 90mm and wider lenses due to limited movements, is there something else I am missing?"

    I am not sure where you read that. I can't comment on a 90 because I use a 75 and a 110 but there is as much flexibility with a 75 as you will find on any camera other than those with an interchangable bellows. In fact, I just came back into the studio from 4 hours ou tin the field shooting largely with two different 75mm lenses ... a 75mm f5.6 SA and a 75mm f4.5 Grandagon N. Major purpose was to see if I am goin gto replace my SA with the Grandagon and I probably will but as for your note, I didn't run out of movements. I wasn't doing anything extreme but I was using tilt and swing for one shot combined with a lot of rise.

    My guess is the reason you see Toyo's at a more attractive price than the others is that 1) there may be more of them around and 2) because they have a wide distribution channel a lot of them get into the hands of folks who want to 'try' LF and give up quickly.

    I have used all of the 4x5 metal fields to some extent. I have used the current Toyo, Horseman and Wista extensively. All cameras are a tradeoff in terms of features, size and weight. Given that, I would put the Toyo and the Horseman neck and neck with the Wista close behind. My experience with the two Wista's I have used is that they just didn't feel as solid or thght as either the Horseman or the Toyo but YMMV as that was only two well used cameras. I prefer the Toyo for its ease of operation in extreme cold weather with its huge knobs and its ability to use a 300mm lens at a bit closer than infinity. Other little things I like about it are the smoothness of operation and the bale back. I hate the front standard locking mechanism. I like the Horseman because of its small compact size and weight. I get frustrated that I can only use a 240mm lens on a Horseman without and extension board. I hate the way the rear bellows/movements work on the Horseman (same on a Technika). That said a Horseman FA was my "go everywhere" field for 16 years and the major reason I switched to Toyo wsa the fact that I have some numbness in my left index finger from C5-C6 compression and the annoyance of operating its tiny knobs with that numbness finally got overwhelming, especially in winter. BTW you can basicall ywork all the Toyo's controls with mittens on. A quick analysis ... feel free to contact me offline for more details.

  6. #6

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    used Toyo's

    Joe, I have to disagree with the notion that Toyo field cameras are not good with lenses wider than a 90mm. I've used my 45AX with a 75 and a 55 for a while now and I don't have problems with the bellows. The 55 doesn't have any room for movements and the 75 runs out of rise before the bellows get tight. I also use my 75 on a 20mm recessed board which allows me to use it with my new DaYi 6x17 back. All things considered its pretty versatile for a relatively inexpensive field camera. BUT, my 45AX is also up for sale on shmeebay right now. The reason? I need a camera with more front rise for architecture. I broke down and bought an Ebony. I'm not even going to start comparing....

    Dave

  7. #7
    lazy retired bum
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    used Toyo's

    I have used a Toyo 45A for many years with a 90 on both a flat and recessed boards. On the recessed board, it has loads of movement; even on the flat board it's fine. It easily works with my 75 as well. The shorter the lens, generally, the smaller the image circle, even at f/22 so I suspect, with a 65 or even 55-58 mm lens you'd be fine.

    The camera weighs 5.5 lb on my scale, packs easily, sets up reasonably fast and is pleasant to use. It doesn't have interchangeable bellows nor are the bellows super long. It is not an ARCA or an Ebony, but it cost a lot less.

    For the money, Toyos are a bargain. I am actually selling mine since I recently sprung for an ARCA, which cost more than my first car, bought new!

    If you're interested in it, I have a bunch of boards as well, email me off line and we can chat.

  8. #8

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    used Toyo's

    Toyos are fine cameras; if the specs meet your needs, it should be a candidate. The one exception is their super-cheap monorail, I believe it is the CX, about which I've heard build-quality complaints.

  9. #9

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    used Toyo's

    Toyos are great cameras in most respects. I have two myself. But they all seem to have one thing in common. They tend to develop pinholes in the bellows very easily. Not that hard to repair with a kit such as the one sold by Bostick and Sullivan if you can ever get them to deliver. But it's something you should look at very carefully before shooting anything important with a recently acquired Toyo camera.
    Michael W. Graves
    Michael's Pub

    If it ain't broke....don't fix it!

  10. #10

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    used Toyo's

    I use a 65 mm on a 1 inch recessed lensboard and a 90 mm on a flat board

    on my Toyo 45 AII with no problems regarding movement.

    The only problems is avoiding the camera bed in the picture (can be

    avoided by dropping the bed) and access to the Copal 0 shutter on

    the 1 inch recessed lensboard.

    Access is much better on the ½ inch recessed lensboard, but I would

    recommmend the 1 inch lensbord for the 65 mm.

    The Toyo 45 AII is rock-solid, but the Toyo 45 CF has the same problems as

    the CX after what I have heard.

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