Brand new to LF, want to get my feet wet

[CRFTony]

I've been a professional portrait photographer for the past 7 years but throughout all that time, I've used nothing but digital cameras. Professionally, I'm very happy with my D800's but I would love to move into large format film for some personal projects. The problem is, I don't know where to start. I was hoping that if I shared my goals here, I could get some much needed advice as I continue to search the forum for past posts.

The project which I want to shoot on 4x5 is a series of portraits of my family members. We have several aunts/uncles on both sides of the family who are well into their 80s/90s and I would love to create some artistic portraits of them. My style is to have these mostly be headshots, perhaps waist up at the widest and very tight headshots at the closest. I would likely be shooting the portraits outdoors in open shade with a variety of reflectors/diffusion is needed. When I shoot digitally, my "go to" lens for these types of shots is a Nikon 135 2.0 lens, normally shooting around 4.5 to 5.6. I like a shallow depth of field, but I know large format is a very different beast. What lens/lenses would you recommend for a 4x5 camera for this type of photography? And what would be the best film to use? I'd like something with some leniency, especially while I experiment.

I don't believe I have the time to do my own developing currently as I don't have a darkroom, but it's something I'd love to get involved in down the road. I'd most likely be purchasing a scanner to scan the negatives and it seems like Epson models are the "go to" for this type of work - is that correct?

I'm very sorry for all the newbie questions. I'm a little overwhelmed at all of the information I've found so far and it seems pretty complicated. At the same time, I'm very excited about diving into large format photography some time this year.

[Leigh]

Hi Tony, and welcome aboard.

I think you'll need to experiment a bit on your lens selection.
A rough estimate for equivalent coverage would be 3x the 35mm FL (of course aspect ratios are different).
As an example, a 50mm would be "normal" on 35mm, while on 4x5 a "normal" is around 135mm to 150mm.
Using that factor, an equivalent of your 135mm would be ~400mm, of which there are very few.

Commonly-available FLs for 4x5 range from 90mm to 360mm, with some lenses available shorter and longer.
Also, the max aperture for LF lenses is usually f/5.6, with a few short FL lenses in f/4 or so.

There are four major lens makes: Schneider-Kreuznach, Rodenstock, Nikon (Nikkor), and Fujinon.
Any modern lens from any of those companies will be quite good. There are no dogs AFAIK.
Two generations of Fujinons are commonly encountered. The more recent multi-coated versions are identified by having the lens labeling engraved on the outside of the front barrel. Earlier single-coated ones had the labeling on the retaining ring encircling the front element.

Shutters are available in several models. I prefer the Copal shutters, and only use those. There are also recent offerings from Seiko (common on Fujinon lenses). Older shutters such as Compur and Compound will show up. I would avoid the really old Ilex/Alphax/Betax shutters, although some #4 Ilex are reportedly still good.

My suggestion would be to get a basic folding field camera with a common lens board, and see about renting a couple of lenses to work with.
The (almost) universal lensboard for 4x5 is the Linhof Technika style. It's easily identified by the two beveled corners at the bottom. These are available in two styles, with the shutter hole centered or offset low by several millimeters. I prefer the centered one.

Take a look at the offerings from KEH in Atlanta at www.keh.com
I recommend buying your stuff from them. They have lots of my money.
Even if you buy elsewhere, their site will give you a good idea of products and prices.

- Leigh

[CRFTony]

Thanks for the terrific advice, Leigh! I'm going to check out KEH now.

I'm certainly not averse to using a shorter equivalent focal length than my current 135. I use 85s all the time too. My love affair with the 135 is probably more due to razor sharpness and bokeh than the focal length in particular.

[Jody_S]

Thanks for the terrific advice, Leigh! I'm going to check out KEH now.

I'm certainly not averse to using a shorter equivalent focal length than my current 135. I use 85s all the time too. My love affair with the 135 is probably more due to razor sharpness and bokeh than the focal length in particular.

Just keep in mind that a 135mm lens at f5.6 has the same depth of field, whether it's mounted on a 4x5 or 35mm. So a 360 or 400mm on 4x5 will give you the same shallow depth of field that you would get from a long telephoto on 35mm. Which means you will have to stop down a lot more than you're used to, without being able to turn a dial to change 'ISO' settings.

[Leigh]

I would avoid press cameras like the Graphics and similar, although they might work for your purpose. I used one extensively back in the early 1960's, so I'm reasonably familiar with their strengths and weaknesses.

The main difference between a press camera and a view camera is the range of movements available, with the press camera being more limited. Of course if you're only doing portraiture that's not a major concern.

The other problems with press cameras are the lensboard (unique to the models), and short bellows.

Regarding bellows:
When focused at infinity, the optical rear node of the lens must be in front of the film by a distance equal to the optical focal length. In fact this is the definition of focal length.

There is a second parameter for a lens called the Flange Focal Length (FFL) or Flange Focal Distance, being the distance from the front of the lensboard to the film. This is provided because you don't necessarily know where the rear node is located, and you have no reference for measuring from that point even if you did know its location.

The FFL is given on the datasheets for all LF lenses. It's a critical parameter. To focus any lens at infinity that distance must fall between the minimum and maximum bellows extension of your camera. When working with lenses at either end of the FL range, this may influence the choice of camera.

To focus any lens for a 1:1 (actual size) image, the lens must be moved forward from its FFL position by a distance equal to the optical focal length of the lens. This forms the second selection criterion for bellows length, and is of significance when doing closeups. When the bellows is extended you must increase the exposure by an amount calculated as the "bellows factor". At 1:1 that factor is two stops.

Regarding lens selection:
The other important parameter for a lens is the diameter of the "Image Circle", which is given on the datasheet. The IC must exceed the film diagonal, which is ~163mm for 4x5. Note that this is normally given at f/22, and will be smaller at larger apertures. For short FL lenses with max apertures of f/4, the IC spec may be at f/16. Many datasheets also give the IC at max aperture.

- Leigh

[CRFTony]

Just keep in mind that a 135mm lens at f5.6 has the same depth of field, whether it's mounted on a 4x5 or 35mm. So a 360 or 400mm on 4x5 will give you the same shallow depth of field that you would get from a long telephoto on 35mm. Which means you will have to stop down a lot more than you're used to, without being able to turn a dial to change 'ISO' settings.

Yeah, that's something that has me a little confused right now. I'm not the greatest math guy so I'm going to have to spend a lot of time figuring this out. I'm assuming a light meter would be immensely helpful as well. I'm always shooting the D800 handheld and with the 135 I try to keep the shutter speed around 1/125 or higher. I'd have the 4x5 camera on a tripod so I could go with a much lower shutter speed, which would help. I'm assuming thought that iso 100 film would be out unless I was adding a serious amount of light to the scene.

Quick question - say I go with a 300mm or 360mm lens on 4x5, about what f stop would I need to be at to go something equivalent to... let's say f8 on a 35mm camera? And how can I check to make sure the 4x5 camera have long enough bellows to support a 300 or 360 lens?

[Brian C. Miller]

Welcome, Tony! And my number one question is, where are you, and do you have Skype or similar? A lot of these questions would be very easy for someone to have a chat with you, and actually show you some things. We have members all over, and one or more of them might actually be convenient to you. (There's a spot in the member profile settings to put in your location.)

If you would like to meet via Skype, drop me a line and I'll get my stuff set up.

As for lens speed, LF lenses are usually "slow." However, since they are "long," the depth of field will be shallow. For instance, I think all of my Nikkor lenses are f/5.6. My fastest lens is a Wollensak 135mm f/4.5, but of course that's only slightly faster than f/5.6. The fastest common lenses are the Kodak Aero Ektars, but they are huge and only work with a couple of camera models.

All of the lenses are "forgiving." The Nikkor 210mm f/5.6 is very common and very good and usually inexpensive. The Caltar is also good, and IIRC, it's probably going to be a rebranded Schneider. A 320/400 speed film, like Kodak Tri-X or Ilford HP5, will give a great classic picture and they are great films. Remember, Paul Simon sang that "Everything looks better in black and white." There are lots of labs that will do a good job processing your film. There are plenty of labs that do mail order, and there may be at least one in your local area.

So: just to get started, you'll need a camera, a lens, at least two film holders, and a light meter. If you use strobes, they'll have to put out enough power to happily push f/32.

If you just want to just get an idea of what your LF camera will give you, photograph the ground glass with your digital camera and then mess a bit with that image.

Have fun and enjoy!

Added: DOF calculator
A 135mm lens at f/5.6 has about 6 inches of DOF at 10ft.
Equivalent to: 300mm at f/32, and 360mm at f/45.
For a 4x5 field camera, you would need a telephoto lens for portrait distance.
Some monorail cameras have enough bellows, or there are extensions for them.

[Jim Jones]

Decades ago many 4x5 cameras used a 4" square lens board. I have older Calumet, Burke & James, and Graphic cameras that were made for this size, and these lens boards can be adapted to larger cameras. These older cameras are functional and usually cheaper than new gear. Leigh is right in suggesting Linhof Technika style boards if you choose newer cameras.

There are many useful books on large format photography. Sites like this are great for answers to questions, but books often teach us things we didn't know to question.

[Leigh]

Yeah, that's something that has me a little confused right now. I'm not the greatest math guy so I'm going to have to spend a lot of time figuring this out. I'm assuming a light meter would be immensely helpful as well.

A light meter is essential IM(-H)O. I've used a lot of different ones over the years.
My favorite is the Sekonic L-558. It does both incident and 1° spot readings, with the ability to read continuous, flash, and combinations thereof. It also has the ability to trigger PocketWizard II remotes wirelessly (with an optional module). It's no longer in production, but you can find used ones at reasonable prices. I have two of them.

I'm always shooting the D800 handheld and with the 135 I try to keep the shutter speed around 1/125 or higher. I'd have the 4x5 camera on a tripod so I could go with a much lower shutter speed, which would help. I'm assuming thought that iso 100 film would be out unless I was adding a serious amount of light to the scene.

I shoot all formats from 35mm through 8x10, and use no film faster than ASA 100. It works just fine.

say I go with a 300mm or 360mm lens on 4x5, about what f stop would I need to be at to go something equivalent to... let's say f8 on a 35mm camera? And how can I check to make sure the 4x5 camera have long enough bellows to support a 300 or 360 lens?

An aperture of f/8 will give you exactly the same exposure on any lens on any camera. That's the whole reason for using it.

The bellows extension is given on the camera datasheet. You can also find a list of them on the homepage here.

- Leigh

[drew.saunders]

You probably discovered this forum through a search and may not know about the many web pages on the main page at: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/
You can spend a lot of time and get a lot of answers to your questions there.

Focal length equivalency is a tricky topic, since in practice, many people find that they use longer or shorter lenses for a given subject when they change formats. Your 135mm is at the long end of the standard portrait lens range (say 70mm-135mm) for 35mm photography. For comparing 24x36mm images to 96x120mm images, with the very different 2:3 vs. 4:5 ratio, you could compare the diagonals (43.3mm vs. 154mm), but some people find in practice that they get what feels to them as "the same" when comparing the long or short dimensions instead of the diagonal. Anyway, a 3.6x multiplier is a good start, but playing with a few lenses is a better way to learn what's good for you. I personally find that I prefer to compare 120mm vs 36mm, rounded up a bit, so I use about a 3.4x multiplier.

The "normal" for 4x5 is anything from a 135mm to 210mm. "Portrait" lenses for head-and-shoulders work are in the 150-450mm range. Honestly, you might want to think of something in the 300-360mm range if you're looking for a portrait lens at the long end that can still be used on a 4x5 camera. In practice, you may find yourself working much closer to your subjects with the bigger camera than you do with the smaller camera.

Depth of field is, very simply put (and you can do a search here for some very-not-simply put definitions) a function of the physical aperture size, working distance to the subject, and degree of magnification of the final output (generally a print). Go here: http://dofmaster.com/dofjs.html and play around with putting in different values for your digital camera vs. 4x5 film. You'll need to know your working distance, so let's say you crop your D800 shots of your subject to a 4:5 ratio (so you're treating your sensor as if it were really 24x30mm) and your head-and-shoulders shot is about a 20"x25" subject area, rounding to 50x62.5cm. Focal length divided by short dimension of your sensor/film is equal to working distance divided by short length of your subject area, so 135/24 = w.d/500 so you'll be 280cm away from your subject with your D800 for this example. If using a 360mm lens on 96x120mm film, you'll be 188cm away from your subject. Plug into the dofmaster web page your D800, 135mm lens, and 280cm distance and play with the f numbers to see what kind of dof you get. At f/2, it says you get 4.91cm total dof. Then change it to 4x5 film, 360mm lens, 188cm of subject distance and you'll see that at f/11, you get 4.99cm of dof. Even if you change to a 450mm lens and 235cm subject distance for the 4x5, to get about 5cm of dof, you'll be at f/11 again. Confused? Don't worry, it'll make more sense in practice, just don't worry about the f/5.6 or slower maximum aperture of most LF lenses.

Since you say you want to do outdoor photographs of older subjects who presumably can't hike miles from a car, you might want to look at a monorail camera instead of a field camera. Yes, they're much heavier, but they're generally more stable, often have much longer bellows draw, and are often very reasonably priced.