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Thread: Drum Scanners: Upgrade from Howtek 4500 to Heidelberg Tango?

  1. #1
    EOTS's Avatar
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    Drum Scanners: Upgrade from Howtek 4500 to Heidelberg Tango?

    Hi,

    until now I was happily using a Howtek 4500 for scanning my large format transparencies.
    I was very satisfied with the scanner, especially the dynamic range,
    except for some tiny aspects like
    in the summer it was overheating sometimes (I got a RAM related error code),
    or sometimes the scans could get a bit noisy in the shadows ...
    but that's relatively easy for me to correct in software ...

    Now that my drum scanner's power supply exploded, and I accidentally scratched the interior of my scanning drum,
    I'm planning to fetch a replacement (4500 replacement/backup scanner, parts, mounting station, two drums, Silverfast, etc) for 1500 EUR.

    However, I was offered to trade some of my Leica equipment for a Heidelberg Tango,
    sadly without 16-bit Software (only the 8-bit Linocolor), but with drums and the mounting station.

    That would cost a lot more.
    I insist on 16-bit, so I would have even to add 2000 EUR for a Silverfast license or see if I can buy the Newcolor 7000 Software somewhere...
    Not to mention the transport.

    • What are the most important advantages of the Tango?
    • Are there maintenance problems with the Tangos?
    • Which parts will need to be replaced over time?


    I expect scanning speed is better with the Tango.

    Weight is a disadvantage (at least for transportation and moving it around in the flat, or course the contrary for IQ).

    Here I can see the shadow noise levels are lower with the Tango than the Howtek (D4000 is more or less equal to mine):
    http://drumscan.blogspot.co.at/2012/...-to-other.html

    Here I can see more detail in the texture, but perhaps that's a matter of different sharpening:
    http://www.largeformatphotography.info/scan-comparison/
    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...x5-fibre-u.jpg (Unsharpened)
    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...x5-fibre-u.jpg (Unsharpened)
    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...-4x5-fibre.jpg (Sharpened)
    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...-4x5-fibre.jpg (Sharpened)

    Best regards,
    Martin

  2. #2
    EOTS's Avatar
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    Re: Drum Scanners: Upgrade from Howtek 4500 to Heidelberg Tango?

    Here's a comparison thread of a guy thinking about which scanner to tend to
    (although referring to an Aztek 8000): http://www.largeformatphotography.in...or-Tango-scans

  3. #3
    owner Hudson Grafik Services Karl Hudson's Avatar
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    Re: Drum Scanners: Upgrade from Howtek 4500 to Heidelberg Tango?

    I could certainly help you with all issues / questions related to the Tango. However, each time I post something on here, the Administrator/MODERATOR has deemed it a 'sales pitch' and NOT in the best interests of this group's members. Therefore I will NOT be posting on this Forum, where I currently am on the planet for members to take advantage of my "Tours" to service and optimize HEIDELBERG TANGO, PRIMESCAN, TOPAZ, NEXSCAN, ETC. If anyone on here would like to know more about the available options for SERVICE or SPARE PARTS or SOFTWARE...or anything that might aid in a decision on whether to get involved with a High End German Scanner manufactured by Linotype-Hell / Heidelberg...please search the Yahoo Groups: Scan Hi-End, Tango / Primescan, and S3400. There you will find many pleased end users thankful there is still someone around to help with these fine machines and aid in decision making which would include advice tips and pricing for moving, installation, service, software, etc.
    Sincerely...Karl Hudson
    Kind regards,
    Karl Hudson
    Hudson Grafik Services, Inc.
    www.hudsongrafik.com
    Atlanta, USA & Kiel, Germany

  4. #4
    EOTS's Avatar
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    Re: Drum Scanners: Upgrade from Howtek 4500 to Heidelberg Tango?

    Thanks Karl!

    I will dig through the posts there!

    Best regards,
    Martin

  5. #5

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    Re: Drum Scanners: Upgrade from Howtek 4500 to Heidelberg Tango?

    I would not consider a Tango an upgrade form a 4500. Of course, if one is newer and has been serviced recently that might be a different story.

    I find the scan comparisons here not useful in choosing a device... despite all the good efforts.

    Lenny
    EigerStudios
    Museum Quality Drum Scanning and Printing

  6. #6
    EOTS's Avatar
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    Re: Drum Scanners: Upgrade from Howtek 4500 to Heidelberg Tango?

    Hello Lenny!

    Thanks for your response!

    I finally decided last week to continue the Howtek road.
    My 4500's power supply is still under repair ...
    After two months I'm suffering severe withdrawal from drum scanning ;-)

    From what I saw the IQ differences were not very significant,
    and could also stem from noisier PMTs in the Howteks,
    although many confirmed that the shadow noise in the Howteks is generally more ...
    But I'm not sure, as on the other hand perhaps it's also related to the aperture
    (6 um for chromes on the Howtek, versus 10 um for the Tangos) ...
    Even so, I didn't notice a large amount of noise on mine,
    and I always use Noiseware to denoise (also the color noise) and it works very effectively ...

    Another part of the decision was that I already had invested in the DPL Software, and liked it.
    Also upgraded last week from DPL Standard to DPL Pro,
    I expect scanning negatives will work a bit better with the DPL Custom CMS Features,
    but I have to try it yet (my 4500's power supply is still under repair).
    From what I've read Tango might be better suited for Chromes than (Color) Negs,
    at least with the Newscan software and considering the CMS feature of DPL.

    Another thing was the weight issue ... 250kg makes it hard to move it around in our flat ...

    And finally the cost issue ... the Howteks deliver a great deal of quality for very small money ...
    I will better invest my last bucks in color film stock ...

    Regarding regrets it's perhaps mostly the larger mounting area, allowing for at least two 8x10 at once,
    but as I do 4x5 mostly, I can live with mounting the occasional 8x10 one by one ...

    Another regret is fastness, but I guess I work perhaps 4 to 10 times the duration on postprocessing,
    than the scanning duration ... and as I'm not a scan service it's not really worth my money ...

    Best regards,
    Martin

  7. #7

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    Re: Drum Scanners: Upgrade from Howtek 4500 to Heidelberg Tango?

    Martin,

    Everything I scanned on my 4500 at 6 microns I eventually rescanned at 13. I don't want to use noise reduction programs at all. If you weren't all the way in Austria, I would send the scanner to have the PMT's checked out. I had one go bad and create some noise. When a new one was installed, it had no noise to speak of. I think all these scanners can compare better or worse depending on how perfectly they are tuned.

    A local fellow put the Tango he bought in his garage and found that it ripped the floor off. He had to pour a concrete floor to stabilize it. This is anecdotal, of course, and may not refer to all Tangos. However, you are correct in believing that it is a large device that spins very fast.

    DPL Pro is great, especially with black and white...

    Best of luck,

    Lenny
    EigerStudios
    Museum Quality Drum Scanning and Printing

  8. #8
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Drum Scanners: Upgrade from Howtek 4500 to Heidelberg Tango?

    And DPL is on sale. The pro version has been reduced from $1500 to $900.

  9. #9

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    Re: Drum Scanners: Upgrade from Howtek 4500 to Heidelberg Tango?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny Eiger View Post
    A local fellow put the Tango he bought in his garage and found that it ripped the floor off. He had to pour a concrete floor to stabilize it. ...
    I bet he would have spent his time better by reading the manuals and learning how to mount the film to properly balance a fast spinning drum.

  10. #10
    EOTS's Avatar
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    Re: Drum Scanners: Upgrade from Howtek 4500 to Heidelberg Tango?

    Hi,

    flirting with the Tango idea again :-)

    Does anyone know how much NewColor 7000 for Mac costs?
    Does it only work with PowerPC (G4, G5) or also Intel Macs with Rosetta?

    Best regards,
    Martin

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