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Thread: Ilford Delta 100/400 expansion?

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Oct 2003

    Ilford Delta 100/400 expansion?

    I have long been under the impression that delta 100 and I suppose 400 is pretty stinkin hard to expand beyond N+1 (If you could even get it that far). Then I found this site and he says delta 100 can be pushed to N+2 in all kinds of developers at 68 degrees.

    Arentz book says you can't get that high that you only increase density not contrast.

    Does anyone know if this is possible?

    I am thinking of Alt. process purpose negs.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Frisco, Texas

    Ilford Delta 100/400 expansion?

    Hi Mark.

    Since the date that those tests were run, Ilford discontinued Delta 400 in sheet film. Also, Ilford formulated, and introduced, Ilfotec DD-X film developer.

    I constantly struggled with trying to tame the highlights of 4X5 Delta 400 sheet film, when I developed it in Ilford ID-11 1:1. After 4X5 Delta 400 was finally dis-continued, I switched to HP-5+ sheet film. Hp-5+ was O.K. in the ID-11 1:1. But, it seemed to give nicer results(for my purposes) in Ilford Microphen at the 1:1 dilution. Ilfotec DD-X is proported to be a liquid version of Microphen, but it contains Potassium Sulfite instead of Sodium Sulfite. I find it to give higher acutance (sharper) and a nice sparkle to the HP-5+ film.

    What I am driving at is: use a conventional grained film, like HP-5+, if you want to expand contrast for alt. process negatives. Also, try it with Ilfotec DD-X developer. It really gives great results with Ilford HP-5+ film.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    South Carolina

    Ilford Delta 100/400 expansion?

    I looked at the site you mentioned and was not able to determine either how the data was derived or on what negative density range it was calculated. Assuming it is correct I think we must also assume that the development information is for silver gelatin printing and a DR of about 1.05.

    Dick Arentz provides data for Pt/Pd printing, which requires negatives of a much higher density range than silver gelatin. N+2 development requires a much higher negative CI for Pt/Pd printing than for silver, and very few films are capable of delivering that much contrast. In other words, you are comparing apple data to orange data.

    However I recently tested Delta 100 using the same testing procedures that Dick uses and my results indicate that you can indeed get N+2 performance from Delta 100, even when the normal DR is as much as 1.7. I used Pyrocat-HD 2:2:100 for my tests and was able to get N+2 with twenty minutes of development assuming a required DR of 1.7 as for palladium printing. N development for this DR was eight minutes, N+1 was 11.

    As for HP5+, it gives adequate expansion for silver gelatin printing but I certainly could not recomend it for expansion of negatives intended for alternative printing. At the DR required it is not capable of delivering evem N+1.
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at Yahoo.

  4. #4

    Ilford Delta 100/400 expansion?

    Whomever said Delta 100 cannot be pushed beyond N+1 sure hasn't used the film, or is using some weird, obscure developer that reacts poorly with this film. I have used Delta 100 in 8x10 and rotary developed it in both PyrocatHD @ 2:2:100 and Xtol (24C) and have negs that print beautifully on Albumen and Van Dyke. Both Van Dyke and Albumen requires a negative with a CI much higher than platinum. Give the film a try for yourself and see what it will deliver.

    Regards, Pete

  5. #5
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico

    Ilford Delta 100/400 expansion?

    For a +2, develope the negative to +1 and then selenium tone the negative. You can't overdue it as it only tones till the silver is coated. I use straight selenium for the purpose. Absolute maximum tone is achieved in a minute or so and it is about one more zone expansion. See Ansel Adams, The Negative.

    at age 67
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Apr 2004

    Ilford Delta 100/400 expansion?

    delta 100 in rodinal 25-1 works fine at n +1 then selenium tone the neg slow to kick it up.

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