Help 16.5cm/165mm f5.3 Tessar

[IanG]

I bought a couple of lenses here (this Forum, about 3 weks ago from a fellow member. No complaints both were as good or even slightly better than descibed and the price was fair

However I misread the max aperture of the 165mm when I bought it and assummed it was the f6.3 version, so was quite surprised to find it was an f5.3 version. However I can't find anything that says CZJ made a 165mm f5.3 Tessar. There's no mistake the aperture opens up to f5.3, and has an f5.6 mark as well, and the front cell is engraved f5.3.

Does anyone have any information on thsi particular variation.

Ian

[IanG]

I've fired off a fewb emails to people who might know but still no information.

Maybe it's a rare lens

Ian

[Dan Fromm]

I b'lieve that Arne Croell, who posts here, has a copy of Hartmut Thiele's Zeiss serial number book. I also b'lieve that other regulars, Rick Denney comes to mind but I could well be mistaken, have the book. If you haven't asked either to look y'r lens up (giving the serial number would help a lot), do.

[rdenney]

I b'lieve that Arne Croell, who posts here, has a copy of Hartmut Thiele's Zeiss serial number book. I also b'lieve that other regulars, Rick Denney comes to mind but I could well be mistaken, have the book. If you haven't asked either to look y'r lens up (giving the serial number would help a lot), do.

I have it but I'm traveling at the moment. I'll be back home Friday and can look it up, if Arne doesn't get there first. Send me a PM with the serial number. Maybe the OP was the one who tried to PM me a day or two ago and found my inbox full--I've made some space since then.

Note that the book is a catalog of the production cards--the cards the factory filled out to authorize the production of a batch of lenses--and actual production sometimes varied from that without being documented. They don't always match real lenses. One batch of Sonnars, for example, is shown as having an M42 mount when I have an example from that range in Pentacon Six mount. But even when erroneous, the information is usually interesting, such as when the design was formulated.

Rick "noting that the new forum doesn't make it obvious that an inbox is full until it's too late" Denney

[IanG]

Thanks Dan, & Rick.

Arne Croell got back to me and has no references to this lens. The front cell has an entrance pupil of approx 32mm compared to the 26mm of an f6.3 165mm Tessar (both +/- 1mm) and the aperture scale is engraved f5.3, 5,6, 8 etc down to f45. The lens is also quite a bit larger

The lens in question isa CZJ Tessar 165mm f5.3, the SN is 6515** so 1925/6, the shutter a Compur Dial set is 8410** again 1926. The lens is in remarkable good condition optically, mechanically (shutter) and cosmetically.

Rick, I don't know which CZJ Sonnar you have but I do remember that two of them came in M42, Exacta or Pentacon 6 mounts, they were designed to cover 35mm and 6x6 from the outset. The mounts were chageable you could use a Pentacon 6 Sonnar on an M42 camera.

Ian

[RJ-]

It's been 4 years since this thread - I wonder how you got on with the diminutive 165mm f5.3 lens?

I found one from my 5x4" student days and have since mislaid the lens flange although the serial number of mine runs at the start of the cycle, consistent with the shutters' age. The extra brightness is always welcome. These days I can just about focus a f4.5 lens. I've not used this lens in some time although the simple screw in front and rear elements are extremely lightweight unlike the heavier DRP Compur.

Kind regards,

RJ

[IanG]

Actually I used the lens as part of some lens tests earlier this year where I was comparing a 1913 Goerz 120mm f6.8 Daor with an Ihagee-Goerz 135mm Dialyte, so thought I should add a Tessar as well. I was looking primarily at contrast and have used un-coated as well as coated Tessar lenses in the past and also aRodenstock Eurynar dialyte.

The tests were as would be expected (due to the number of air/glass sufaces) the Dialytes were poor contrast, the Tessar was a lot better but the Dagor was streets ahead. I also have a 165mm f6.3 Tessar and it's a good lens the sharpest of all the pre-war Tessars (or type) I own of the 135-165mm range (and I have quite a few).

Arne Croell could find no rererences to this odd 165mm f5.3 Tessar, I have found a few on eBay fitted to Kodak cameras and they seeem to have been made in two slightly different periods. The lens I bought apperas to have not been fitted to a camera it's almost mint.

Early this year when I bought my 120mm Dagor in a Compound the eBay seller had two other lenses 135mm and 150mm not as desirable and much higher BIN prices, all 3 were with 1913 Serial Numbers and all seemed new and never used. It does seem that new 50-100 year old stock is still around although rarely, as I bought a mint Ibsor #1 shutter a couple of months ago. I now have a few new old shutters with blank aperture scales, as well as NIB Prontor and Varios. I seem to accumulating US shutters as well

Ian

[RJ-]

Hi Ian,

That's a lot of testing and thank you for your insights. It seems then that the Tessar 165mm f5.3 which I have, stems from the earlier period of manufacture then. The 135mm-165mm focal length range isn't one I particularly know well, other than some experience with a Rodenstock 135mm f5.6 Sironar (Caltar rebranding), a Goerz Dogmar 150mm f4.5 and the Zeiss 165mm f5.3. I found I couldn't use a Caltar - respectably clean yet with virtually no freedom of movement due to the limited covering power, a 5x4" felt like a point and shoot. With the Dogmar lens, ghosting was difficult to conquer although that is my favourite aperture for large format (f9s are driving me spare with one corner or other missing, when I check that two corners are still within the image circle). The Zeiss Tessar 165mm f5.3 was a great compromise for viewing brightness and size producing images with an easier to live with balance between the two others.

I would like to start using mine again. I wonder if you could measure your flange diameter/pitch for reference. Whilst I'm fantasising, an Ilex No.V is being scribbled on the list too.

Kind regards,

RJ

[IanG]

The older dial-set Compur shutters use a different thread coarser titch to the rim-set Compurs. The 165mm f5.3 Tessar has the same flange diameter as a Compur/Copal #1 and a modern locking ring will only go on a couple of turns before binding, probably not enough to be secure.

Luckily mine came with it's retaking ring, I checked my box of ringed/flames but have nothing that size spare.

If your 135mm Caltar is a rebranded Sironar as opposed to the later Sironar N then there's little room for movements, I often use a later 135mm Caltat II S (rebranded Symmar S) which is great for landscapes but has a larger image circle compared to a plain Sironar but I used a 135mm Tessar for a while so got used to tight image circles and the Symmar's not too bad.

Ian

[RJ-]

Hi Ian,

That description matches this Compur dialset and the Copal 1 ring problem.

I've found that it can be temporarily managed by plumbing O rings which offer a better lock down for the diminutive pocket lens although even then, trying to focus on the last century ground glass of the MPP camera is an effort in the night. It will be interesting to try this lens on 4x4" format: the only standard tessar type design lens which I still use is the longer focal length 300mm f4.5 German Tessar which works well for the whole plate format although the f9 barrel series from 300mm, 360mm, 375mm all seem to conveniently fit into a Prontor 3 press shutter and take us approximately the same volume. Perhaps it's time to upgrade the darkening groundglass.

Kind regards,
RJ