8 x 10" camera for architecture photography

[vinny]

Frank, only amateurs bracket. REMEMBER?
I didn't think it would take long for someone to talk this guy out of 8x10. Fuji 8x10 chrome is about $13/sheet right now. We don't know if he shoots 4x5 now or not, prolly not. Everyone wants to make HUGE prints these days and 8x10 IS the way to go but you guys are to frickin' old to carry the equipment! ha.

[mortensen]

I have been pondering a set up to meet the exact same requirements - and the drum scanner just landed on my desk. My considerations (with price as a concern) boiled down to either a 'bastard' Arca or this Shen-Hao (yes, I really mean it - a chinese woodie):
https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/..._detail&p=3146

... for the 'bastard' arca, read here:
http://www.largeformatphotography.in...t=bastard+arca

[mortensen]

btw, our good friend Sze Tsung Leong uses an Arca F-metric 8x10 with a cube head.... $10 grand?!?
http://adamwiseman.photoshelter.com/...0005BKmIuPacU0

[Frank Petronio]

So you got a free $300 drum scanner and now you rationalize a $3000-plus camera and all the $$$$ shooting expenses?

I'm just going to get myself banned for talking US politics if I keep going about the logic of that... but the cost of the camera, even an expensive one, is peanuts compared to actually operating it effectively.

[georgl]

You can also get a Linhof Kardan GTL which might be the most sturdy studio camera. But Arca or Sinar (P2) might be just as good. I've tested Shen Hao on Photokina, sorry but you get what you pay for...

Under real-world conditions most decent cameras are sturdy enough as long it's not too windy...

Precise alignment of the screen and holders are more important, you can use adhesive film (3M?) to ensure film flatnnes - works perfectly.

With a good lens (Sironar-S, Symmar XL) @f22 (decent DoF with architecture) and good film (slide film is impressive, Portra has incredible DR) and decent technique you get it all - excellent 2000ppi drum scans are possible although it's not the most convenient kind photography...

[Former Member 27732]

....then there are those who just love using 8x10 chromes and want to get in a few pics before the curtain comes down!

[gliderbee]

I had the Toyo 810G monorail for a while.
It had full (and I mean full) movements, part of a modular system, precise, rock-solid, and had plenty of cheap parts on eBay and elsewhere.
If I remember correctly, front rise was 60mm, or something crazy; same for rear rise.
Get a solid tripod and head, and it's as good as anything out there.

+1
I still have mine, and two 5x7 Toyo G. The only real difference between the different Toyo's are the bellows and back standards. Great system.

Stefan

[mortensen]

So you got a free $300 drum scanner and now you rationalize a $3000-plus camera and all the $$$$ shooting expenses?

I'm just going to get myself banned for talking US politics if I keep going about the logic of that... but the cost of the camera, even an expensive one, is peanuts compared to actually operating it effectively.

oh nononono.... I'm certainly not on the way into 8x10 - I just said that I recently thought about a setup with similar requirements. As stated in the other thread (rail->field), I am extremely happy with my TK45 + TechV setup. Speaking of the drum scanner, I actually thought about sending you something as personal as an email regarding the good ol' 'modern drum scanner'-thread. You are probably the most cost-benefit-tuned of us in here and there seems to be great value in those old machines. But, I'll wait and keep my fingers crossed until the little beauty is actually giving me scans...

[nottired]

Thank you all for contributing! Many good thoughts shared here..
Kirk, as for specifics- I want to print huge and I mean HUGE (2x2,5m or bigger). I am picky when it comes to technical aspect of image quality, that's why I'm thinking about taking the film + drum scan route.
I previously shot with DSLRs, MF film, MF digital and some limited experience MFDB + tech camera.
I also considered MFDB + tech camera, but it doesn't make much sense for me- very limited movements given the image circles of digial lenses, high cost (at least for me, if I count how much I'll spend on film- it won't be high volumes after some learning).

I know that the route I'm taking is not very convenient or pleasant (despite shooting itself which of course is pleasant with a large format camera), but for best results possible I guess there's no way around..

Going back to the subject of Arca / Sinar, I guess Arca Swiss approach is a bit more straightforward for me- a guy with limited LF experience. Sinar seems to be a bit less simplistic / more complex design and because of that less accessible.. maybe I'm wrong?
I think I'd rather have Arca, but initial cost of everything doesn't encourage me.. on the other hand, Sinar system goes for peanuts comparing to Arca, 2nd-hand market is great, you can get pretty much everything you need.
Two questions regarding Arca:
1. Can you buy a M-monolith 4x5 (or 6x9) and buy additional parts (carriers, bellows) to make it a "100%" 8x10 camera (same movements as Monolith 8x10) or does the rear and front standards of Monolith 8 x 10 differ somehow?
2. Lens plates.. can you somehow use, say, Sinar lensplates? Arca swiss retail prices for LF lenses or the cost of mounting a LF lens on Arca board are insane, as everything Arca- I think I'd like to settle for used (but mint) lenses.

To sum up, I'd like to buy Arca 8x10 but I can't justify the cost, so I'm thinking about getting used Monolith and buy parts to be able to convert it to 8x10. Any thoughts on that?

[Frank Petronio]

I don't see how a Sinar P2 and an Arca-Swiss Monolith are all that different other than some relatively cosmetic industrial design decisions? The Sinar can be set up to be extremely precise and rigid, to a finer degree than you can accurately focus. The Arca may have some advantages but I've never been clear as to what they could be... other than it looks really cool.

If you have not shot large format film yet, perhaps you should start with a 4x5 to learn how to use it before spending so much money on an 8x10? You can still rent Sinars in major cities or directly from certain professional photographers. That might be the best way to learn if it is even worthwhile. With the savings in film you could probably buy a car....

Arca-Swiss cameras are well designed and made but simply finding one to buy, especially a rare version like the 8x10 Monolith, much less the expansion parts, could take years and be very expensive... for very little gain since both the Sinars and top-end Linhofs are completely geared cameras as well.

Finally, gearing is nice but hardly necessary, once you use a camera you'll understand that it isn't as much value as you might think. Arca does make the F-line with the Orbix mechanism, which gives you geared tilt and swing - which are the two movements where you actually benefit from the gearing. Having rise and shift geared is kind of a waste of money since you tend to use them as gross movements.