Looking to move into LF

[nimo956]

Hi All,

I'm so glad I found this site. After years of shooting digital, I'm looking to trade everything in and fully move into LF photography. I've been doing some research, but would like some advice on the bare essentials I need to get started. I know I want a wooden field camera and would like a slightly wider lens around 120mm or 135mm. My budget is around $4k. Is it best to buy everything new, or should I be looking for used equipment? I need the following:

4x5 camera
120mm or 135mm lens (Schneider or Rodenstock, but what version, there are too many models)
Tripod
Ball Head
Cable Release
Lens Board
Dark Cloth
Loupe
Light Meter
Film Holders
Maybe some filters

First, am I missing anything? Second, what do you recommend for the big ticket items? Thanks for your help.

[Kodachrome25]

I got into LF this past Spring to get the best results in my darkroom for fine art printing.

I went with a brand new Chamonix 45N-2:
http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/45.html

For the money, I can't imagine doing better. You rarely see these used because people who own them really are quite satisfied with them. As for lenses. I use 7 of them with a range of 65mm to 350mm. My favorite lens is the 135mm 5.6 Apo Sironar. I have it mounted on a Chamonix carbon fiber lens board...the combo is as light as it gets.

I also have about 30 film holders including 6 brand new wooden Chamonix holders that are extremely well made and very light. My tripod is a Bogen 190CX Pro with a Acratech GP ball head. I have a few inexpensive 20" cable releases. For a loupe most people recommend a lower power 4-5x but I use a peak 10x since it is really small.

You can get good used wooden field cameras for a few hundred less than a new 45N-2....but it is truly a camera I would have paid twice as much for, it is that good.

Others will chime in I am sure...

[Jody_S]

Hi All,

I'm so glad I found this site. After years of shooting digital, I'm looking to trade everything in and fully move into LF photography. I've been doing some research, but would like some advice on the bare essentials I need to get started. I know I want a wooden field camera and would like a slightly wider lens around 120mm or 135mm. My budget is around $4k. Is it best to buy everything new, or should I be looking for used equipment? I need the following:

4x5 camera
120mm or 135mm lens (Schneider or Rodenstock, but what version, there are too many models)
Tripod
Ball Head
Cable Release
Lens Board
Dark Cloth
Loupe
Light Meter
Film Holders
Maybe some filters

First, am I missing anything? Second, what do you recommend for the big ticket items? Thanks for your help.

4K should buy you top-shelf used gear. If you want to buy new, have fun and do it (someone has to, and it won't be me!); but there is absolutely no need to do so given the care LF photographers take with their gear, and the sheer volume of used gear on the market.

Your list for taking photos is pretty complete. You'll get a lot of comments over what's best, from cameras to lenses to loupes and dark cloths. A secret: there is very little difference between modern lenses, certainly no difference that you'll see as a beginner. Get whichever one you find for the right price, and don't worry too much about it. Cameras are a matter of personal preferences; you need to know what you're going to shoot and whether you're hiking with it, in a studio, whatever. There are many available cameras for every possible style of shooting. The rest is just standard photo gear; your light meter and filters from your digital work are probably sufficient to get started; if you don't have a light meter, then you'll need to know again what style of shooting you'll be doing.

What are you missing? Are you going to develop yourself, or have a lab do it? What are you going to do with the resulting negs/chromes? Print or scan? Color or B&W? If you're going to hike, you'll need a bag to carry all of this; with LF, this is not a trivial issue. That's pretty much it, far as I can tell. If you're buying used, look for a deal where you can buy someone's entire kit; you'll save a lot of money just on the big ticket items, and you'll probably get a lot of the smaller stuff thrown in for free. Start with Craigslist/Kijiji, there's money to be saved buying locally as well. If you're not sure what something is, come here and ask.

[RichardSperry]

I would recommend buying used.

If it's not for you, you can sell it all and not take much of a depreciation hit.

You may find you want the additional movements of a rail camera, for instance. Or that the focal length you buy is not just right for your work. You may want the rigidity of a metal field camera instead.

You can get that whole lot, mint condition used, for about say $1500. Save the $2500 for a trip to take photos, perhaps.

And you'll need a scanner or 4x5 enlarger setup, $700 or so for scanner new or darkroom stuff used. You will need something to carry it all, as well.

PS, Nikon makes(made) very good LF lenses.

[RichardSperry]

Just followed KC25's link, that is one nice looking camera for $900 new.

[joselsgil]

nimo956,

Before making your purchase, you might want to look into attending a large format workshop. Some workshops have large format cameras for the students to use. Do a search to see if any future workshops are located in your area.

Good luck,

Jose

[Mike Anderson]

Ball Head

I use a ballhead for 4x5 but it doesn't seem optimal. It works, it's rigid and strong enough, but it seems something geared would be better for LF.

[John Kasaian]

Start with something used and in good condition if possible.
As other said, if you decide this isn't for you, you won't take a big financial hit if you decide to sell.
Also, these things are very personal and rather funky. You likely won't know exactly what you want or need until you've messed around with a LF camera for awhile. Once you've figured that out, spend your money on the better for you equipment.
Roughly, you may consider---
4x5 camera---Shen seems to be the price leader. You might find a Tachihara used
Lens---either Schneider or Rodenstock (or Nikon for that matter) The faster the better and condition is everything. Also important is the condition of the shutter, though. Don't rule out single coated glass from the likes of Kodak,Wollensak or Goerz.
Tripod---see what handles the wieght of your camera first. You might get by with an old Tilt-all for around $70. Or maybe not.
Ball Head---wait and see if you really want one.
Cable Release---I like Gepe Pros. Minettes are cool too. They aren't all that expensive so get a new one (or two, they sometimes go into hiding.)
Lens Board---this should come with your camera. If not wooden ones can be made. A box of Krispy Kremes for the wood shop teacher at your local High School might get you a supply.
Dark cloth---home made,instructions are in Steve Simmon's excellent book Using the View Camera
Light Meter---if you want to learn the Zone System you'll want a spot meter like a Pentax. If not, any accurate meter will work.
Loupe---The Fuji seems to work well on a 4x5 ground glass. They come up on ebay every once in awhile.
Film Holders---plastic Liscos or Fidelitys, or Riteways. Buy a stack of them, test for leaks with paper and send any leakers back where you got 'em for an exchange.
Filters---if your lens has threads you can get them used rather cheaply. If not the Lee system works.
Jim at Midwest is a very good guy to deal with.
Most importantly, have fun!

[nimo956]

Thanks everyone for your help. Buying used seems like the way to go. It will sure save me a lot of money, but I always just worry about being able to tell if there are any problems. I think I can find a Shen Hao for like $400-$500. Also, what do people think of the Fujinon CMW 150mm f/5.6? I think I found one for like $250. What questions should I ask about the camera/lens when buying used?

[Frank Petronio]

A Shen for $500 and a Fuji 125 is a great combination. If you can't try it in person, make sure it is returnable. The nice thing about large format gear is that it is mechanically simple and you can safely look at it and use it to determine if there are any issues. If you aren't able to shoot film or use an Instant Film back to test for light leaks, check that the bellows is supple, folded correctly, and not damaged - can also take it into a dark room and shine a high-powered LED flashlight around while you peer inside. Otherwise just manipulate every control, "dry" shoot with it, stick a holder into the back, etc.

While you might pay slightly more, places like KEH and MPEX.com have liberal return policies on good used gear.

Now... my curmudgeony advice. First, overdo it with the tripod and head. Most people go too light and make excuses.

Second, folding wood cameras, while mechanically simple, are still rather complex, Gyro Gearloose type contraptions - some designs are hard for newbies to open up and the controls are often obscured and limited. For a fraction of their cost, you can purchase a metal monorail camera from a precision orientated manufacturer like Sinar, Cambo, Toyo, Arca-Swiss, or Linhof. These will be heavier and bulkier than their wooden counterparts. They will require a more solid tripod and they may not conform to whatever expectations people have for "classic old-timey cameras". But... they are much simpler to actually operate and figure out because they have obvious controls. Movements are unlimited and they are fast and easy to set-up, level and square, zeroed out. And they are rigid and robust, you don't have to baby them. Also they are expandable and systematic, meaning you can buy extensions, bag bellows, and a host of bits and pieces to "build" whatever camera you need. Considering that you can get one for $300, they make great "trainers" and if later on you decide that you prefer to go backing with some ultra-light set-up, you can then get a second really light camera without compromise, leaving the inexpensive monorail for more stable work at home or closer to your car.

If you get into large format you may end up experimenting with several different cameras and formats so don't get too caught up in the initial purchase. Instead do your homework and buy at the right price so if you switch cameras you can resell your old one for a break even price. Once you are a member here for 30 days you'll gain access to this forum's Buy and Sell section - it works pretty well and saves a bit over eBay too.

Next Brian will tell you that my advice is a crock. And I will admit that I started with a pretty wooden camera myself (a Wista, long long ago). They are seductive. But try a professional camera too if you can.