best low-cost field 4x5 for LF newbie?

[Leigh]

Kevwil,

A couple of general suggestions, if I may.

#1: in big red letters...
Avoid the "big name" cameras. They offer little or no value to a newbie that would justify their excessive price.
Once you gain familiarity with the equipment you can decide which features are important to you for your type of shooting,
then look at upgrading to a camera that more closely meets your ideals. Right now you don't know what those are.

#2:
Check the length of the bellows on any camera you consider. This determines the longest lens you can use, and how close you can focus.

- Leigh

[John Kasaian]

At the risk of ticking off anybody, I think the OP is splitting hairs here (not that I am in any shape to discuss hair, split or otherwise!) The finer points between the Shen and the Chamoi-however you spell it would likely be of considerable interest to someone who knows what they want in a camera and quite likely not of any consequence at all to a newbie as it takes time to determine what will work out best for you in the real world. Therefore I suggest getting either camera, whichever is available used and cheap. Play with it. Shoot it.Learn what you need to learn from it and then make the determination. As other have mentioned, you shouldn't loose any money on a good used camera, but I suspect just getting out and using a Shen (or Cham) will answer your questions better than any of us can. If it's reinforcement you want, take heart that both cameras have certainly been used to make stunningly beautiful photographs (check out the image sharing forum!)

[acs]

For lightweight and not too shabby, just get the Chamonix...

Another vote for the Chamonix.

[Alan Gales]

I always recommend a cheap monorail for just that reason. The late model Cambo/Calumets are lightweight although bulky. You can get one used for $150.00. Learn on it and you will figure out what you really want.

If later you decide that you want a folder then you can sell the monorail for about what you paid. You just may want to keep it for portraits and still life's.

[kevwil]

Kevwil,

A couple of general suggestions, if I may.

#1: in big red letters...
Avoid the "big name" cameras. They offer little or no value to a newbie that would justify their excessive price.
Once you gain familiarity with the equipment you can decide which features are important to you for your type of shooting,
then look at upgrading to a camera that more closely meets your ideals. Right now you don't know what those are.

#2:
Check the length of the bellows on any camera you consider. This determines the longest lens you can use, and how close you can focus.

- Leigh

#1 - good advice! Thanks.

#2 - Definitely good advice! I'm much more concerned with wide angles than the longer lengths, but I'll make note of both extremes of bellows lengths.

[kevwil]

I suggest getting either camera, whichever is available used and cheap. Play with it. Shoot it. Learn what you need to learn from it and then make the determination. As other have mentioned, you shouldn't loose any money on a good used camera, but I suspect just getting out and using a Shen (or Cham) will answer your questions better than any of us can. If it's reinforcement you want, take heart that both cameras have certainly been used to make stunningly beautiful photographs (check out the image sharing forum!)

Wait ... so common sense still exists? ;-)

[Leigh]

...both cameras have certainly been used to make stunningly beautiful photographs

Hoping not to ruffle any feathers, but...

Cameras do not make photographs. Photographers make photographs with the aid of lenses.

The lens is the only part of the camera that the light sees.

A good lens will produce good photos on any camera body, while a poor lens will produce poor photos on any body.

Put your money into lenses and use whatever body you can find in the style you want.

- Leigh

[kevwil]

Read the front pages of this website for how to do stuff. Also Kerry's old website has some interesting gearhead stuff: http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm and http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/lightwei.htm

Hmmm, the Toho does sound interesting, the weight is good, I wonder how the prices compare?

For lightweight and not too shabby, just get the Chamonix new off eBay. Viva la China!

I get zero results when searching "Chamonix 4x5" on eBay.

Get a generic clone Technika Copal 0 lensboard for the Cham, a flat metal lenswrench, and start with a normal 135/5.6 Rodenstock Sironar-N or Schneider APO-Symmar lens in a black Copal shutter bought used for under $400.

Either get a Pentax digital spot meter used or just use your Canon set to the same ISO and aperture.

Is using another camera's meter really accurate enough? I don't have the Canon anymore, I use a micro-4/3 OM-D, which has spoiled me on light weight like you wouldn't believe.

Get some B&W or color negative film, 5 or 10 Fidelity or Lisco plastic film holders, a 4 to 7x loupe - a cheap plastic one is fine. Use an old black t-shirt for a darkcloth. Treat yourself to a Harrison Pup Tent changing tent if you don't have a darkroom. Use a Tupperware food container for carrying the lens, wrap camera in darkcloth. Put your film holders into a Ziplock baggie. Get a camel hair brush and blower bulb for cleaning the holders. Buy a good Gepe cable release. Get a screw-in rubber lenshade for the lens.

I always shoot color slide film, but yeah this is excellent stuff!!

Put everything into the smallest backpack you can. You don't need an over-padded camera backpack. These are really nice when you get hardcore: http://www.photobackpacker.com.

Bookmarked for future reference, thanks! I have a couple of ThinkTank backpacks that I can use in the mean time.

Splurge on a 2-series Gitzo or cheaper Chinese carbon-fiber tripod with 1" or larger legs, as high as you can stand. Use a RRS or decent ball head with Arca-Swiss compatible quick release plates.

Send your film to http://4photolab.com if you don't process it yourself. Save the empty boxes for sending your exposed film.

Get an Epson 700 flatbed to scan, use a color calibrator on your monitor, a pigment Epson printer is best, try the Baryta paper.

I have an Induro CT314 and PhotoClam PC48NS ball, both rated 50+ lbs load, should be no problem for a 3 lb camera. I have an Epson V500 scanner, I'll wait and see if it works well enough for 4x5 before considering upgrading to a V700 or V750.

Postcards - lol yeah I know I'm chasing a cliché with the landscape thing, but nature is my thing.

Great advice Frank, THANK YOU!

[sully75]

He should get a Deardorff. A used one.

Had a Deardorff, sold it and bought a Chamonix. Much, much happier.

[sully75]

At the risk of ticking off anybody, I think the OP is splitting hairs here (not that I am in any shape to discuss hair, split or otherwise!) The finer points between the Shen and the Chamoi-however you spell it would likely be of considerable interest to someone who knows what they want in a camera and quite likely not of any consequence at all to a newbie as it takes time to determine what will work out best for you in the real world. Therefore I suggest getting either camera, whichever is available used and cheap. Play with it. Shoot it.Learn what you need to learn from it and then make the determination. As other have mentioned, you shouldn't loose any money on a good used camera, but I suspect just getting out and using a Shen (or Cham) will answer your questions better than any of us can. If it's reinforcement you want, take heart that both cameras have certainly been used to make stunningly beautiful photographs (check out the image sharing forum!)

I've heard people complain about the quality of the Shen-Hao, but never the Chamonix. I do have a small complaint about mine, the bubble levels don't seem to agree with each other (slightly off). I haven't really checked to make sure the standards are parallel but no problems with sharpness.