In search of a missing element for Dallmeyer 3B

[goamules]

If there was enough demand, there are optical companies that could make a modern petzval. But there isn't enough demand, no company is going to start making a specialty large format lens that might sell 10 a year. The same skilled craftsman and one-man business that could make you a one-off replacement element could make complete lenses. But both would be very expensive.

[alex from holland]

I am sure there's a market for these new lenses
Large format photography is hot. Not alone wet plate, but polaroid, film etc.
People are even looking for petzvals for the medium format digital camera's

[pbryld]

I am sure there's a market for these new lenses
Large format photography is hot. Not alone wet plate, but polaroid, film etc.
People are even looking for petzvals for the medium format digital camera's

I think the notion that LF and wet plate is "hot" is simply an illusion that comes from being on these forums. It makes it seem like everyone is doing it, that it's quite normal, but in reality, it's still a very unique thing to do that will set you apart from most other photographers in the world.

[goamules]

I think the notion that LF and wet plate is "hot" is simply an illusion that comes from being on these forums. It makes it seem like everyone is doing it, that it's quite normal, but in reality, it's still a very unique thing to do that will set you apart from most other photographers in the world.

I concur. Though a lot of large brass lenses sell on Ebay, a lot of those buyers are now investment speculators, not users. If you want a close approximation of how many people might buy a newly made lens (if the price was below that of an old one), look at how many large format cameras are made and sold each year. Not many, I would guess. Or perhaps a better guage; how many of the "replica Pinkham & Smith" Cooke PS945 lenses sold when they started making them a few years ago?

[alex from holland]

Garrett, these is also a shortage on affordable wet plate camera's ( over here)
There are only 1 or 2 suppliers in Europe and a handfull in the US. Shipping to Europe is a pain in the ass.
Huge shipping costs and we have to add about 25% taxes and custom fees.
Waiting lists of more than half a year is "normal"
Many of my wet plate "students' are looking for an affordable solution of a lens and wet plate camera.
I am sure if someone was able to produce a 3b copy it would sell for about 1500,=. And it even wouldn'tneed a rack and pinion as nobody is using that.

Alex

[vitality]

I'm not sure that somebody would buy new petzval for 1500... You can find 3B for same price (even cheaper, few days ago was sold for 1000eur on eBay), so why to buy alternative? Need urgently to start shooting? You can find some Hermagis F4 for 500 eur. Not the same, not F/3, without SF adjustment, but do you need it from the 1st day of shooting, or for first few months it would be a good lens?
If you buy 3B and in 2-3 years you stop shooting, you will sell it for same money (+/-? may be you will make some profit, may be you will lose something). Buying new alternative, means losing money when you sell it later (why would someone buy used one for 1500 if new one is available for the same price. Apart of situation, that everybody wants this lens, and to buy new one you need to wait for 2-3 years, so you ready to pay some amount for used one just to gt it today). I'm not talking about buying/selling only because of profit, I'm saying about not loosing money if you decide to sell it later, because you stop shooting.

Well, that's my opinion, I might be wrong...

[goamules]

I mostly agree with Vitality, but I hear your points too Alex. I think the two factors are 1) supply and demand, and 2) cost of a replica. Two items I'm very familiar with that are replicated are guns and string instruments. Back in the 1970s you could buy an original Sharps "buffalo rifle" for about $1200. Because of a new target shooting sport in America, the prices started going up until a good one was $3,000 - $5,000 in the late 1980s. At that point, and after the movie Quigley Down Under, Shiloh Sharps started selling more of their replicas. At that time they were about $1,000. So 1/3 to 1/5 the cost of an original.

The best Mandolins are Gibsons from the 1910s to 1930s. For a brief period in the 1920s a genius named Loyd Loar made the best Gibson ever made. Loar signed Gibsons sold for around 3,000 in the 1980s (a regular Gibson from the 20s would be about $500). By 2000, a Loar mandolin cost about $15,000, and a company in China (yes, China) started hand making very good Loar-style mandolins for about $700. I think they cost about a grand now. Again a 1/5 to 1/15 cost replica.

Both of the above companies are doing very well, and their replicas are still in much demand. I think there are less LF photographers than antique target rifle shooters or even mandolin players. But whatever the demand is, a replica 3B would have to cost much less than the average price of an original. We know what an original costs right now, on average. What would tip someone in the favor of a replica 3B? Not the current original cost.

[alex from holland]

Nobody has a wrong opninion !
But where do you find a hermagis f4 for 500,= ? You may pm me for that is i collect the hermagis lenses!
There also has been sold a 3b for more than 2000 usd just a few days ago. so 1000 is rather a bargain. ( they still exist though.....)

I always wondered why people buy new gear. I ALWAYS bought mine used and that saved me a lot of money.
But go out and have a look at the large camera stores. People are spending money like crazy on new gear for : new gear.
The majority doens't want to buy used gear.
They want it new. Like new cars, news camera's, new clothes, new girlfriends.
Oeps, forget about the last option..... That will cost a lot of money LOL

I'm not sure that somebody would buy new petzval for 1500... You can find 3B for same price (even cheaper, few days ago was sold for 1000eur on eBay), so why to buy alternative? Need urgently to start shooting? You can find some Hermagis F4 for 500 eur. Not the same, not F/3, without SF adjustment, but do you need it from the 1st day of shooting, or for first few months it would be a good lens?
If you buy 3B and in 2-3 years you stop shooting, you will sell it for same money (+/-? may be you will make some profit, may be you will lose something). Buying new alternative, means losing money when you sell it later (why would someone buy used one for 1500 if new one is available for the same price. Apart of situation, that everybody wants this lens, and to buy new one you need to wait for 2-3 years, so you ready to pay some amount for used one just to gt it today). I'm not talking about buying/selling only because of profit, I'm saying about not loosing money if you decide to sell it later, because you stop shooting.

Well, that's my opinion, I might be wrong...

[Steven Tribe]

I really don't know whether the estimated price of 1,500 usd is realistic for a batch production of new 3D lenses.

I just have no idea whether modern lens production technology has reached a stage where preliminary forming of surfaces, diameter and depth can be made on a programmed lathe/grinder set-up? If this is the case, then perhaps final polishing and assembly could be made by the purchaser? I believe this is the system employed by amateur telescope makers buliging their own mirrors.

Comments from someone who has knowledge of the present technology of optical lens production would be appreciated?

[E. von Hoegh]

I really don't know whether the estimated price of 1,500 usd is realistic for a batch production of new 3D lenses.

I just have no idea whether modern lens production technology has reached a stage where preliminary forming of surfaces, diameter and depth can be made on a programmed lathe/grinder set-up? If this is the case, then perhaps final polishing and assembly could be made by the purchaser? I believe this is the system employed by amateur telescope makers buliging their own mirrors.

Comments from someone who has knowledge of the present technology of optical lens production would be appreciated?

Batch production prices would depend mostly on the size of the batch. I think $1500 is low.
As for selling partially finished elements and a barrel to assemble, how many photographers also have the skills to do this? How many are even aware of what skills and tools are needed? Damn few. This approach sounds like a potential disaster due to the almost infinite variety of pitfalls, and the price of the kit would still be high. The CNC technology does exist to rough out elements though.

As I pointed out in a previous post, making a telescope mirror (one surface) and making a photographic objective are vastly different.