First 8x10 - Field Camera or Monorail?

[Cletus]

I hope I don't get beat up on this question as badly as I did over the "equivalent focal length" debacle, but I'll take my chances:

I've been preparing to make the jump from 4x5 to 8x10 and having some difficulty deciding on a camera. I pretty much had it narrowed down to either the Chamonix or the Shen Hao FCL810A. Now, I'm wondering whether I shoud have been considering a much less expensive (and much heavier) monorail all along, at least to start out with? Even with 4x5 I never go far from my truck, maybe 1/4 mile tops. I'm starting to think spending the extra TWO OR THREE THOUSAND for a field camera to save 10 pounds over a $500-800 monorail might not be the wisest move until I am sure about the format.

Anyone have any advice, or an experienced suggestion for a good "starter" 8x10 in this class? I'm thinking Toyo, Sinar, Horseman, Cambo, etc. I'm not really interested in the antiques. I know there are some positive experiences out there with Grovers and various Kodaks, but not for me when a more modern camera can be had for similar dollars.

My primary tripod is a Series 3 Gitzo, so I guess anything under 20lbs should be okay there, but still, the lighter the better. I also have a HUGE Majestic 4800, but I think that will be overkill for all but the heaviest of heavies? Is there even such thing as a 15lb monorail? (I was eyeing a Sinar P2 recently, at ~18lbs) - Or on the other hand, maybe I should just jump right in and drop the coin on the Chamonix and never look back?

Thanks for your help and input on this somewhat difficult decision...

[welly]

My Cambo 8x10 is a monster. I wouldn't like to guess how heavy it is but I wouldn't choose to take it hiking if it was up to me. I'm making an uneducated guess that most 8x10 monorails are going to be heavier than their field camera brethren. But I'd wager most people would recommend the camera that best suits your needs and if your needs is a light camera then get your wallet out.

[Pfiltz]

Sorry didn't catch that your going from 4x5 to 8x10. My bad.

[chassis]

My recent revelation about camera weight is that large format cameras are heavy! I have my 4x5 Toyo field camera with me now, and I thought to myself how heavy it and the tripod are, as I was loading them into the car.

I am planning an October overnight backpacking trip of about 15 miles, and thought about bringing the 4x5. There is no way I will do this, after being reminded of the weight.

[Frank Petronio]

I had an 8x10 Arca-Swiss in the older design that was light, compact, under $1000, and a fully capable monorail.

I had an 8x10 Sinar Norma that was more light/compact than many monorails, only $600, and more robust/capable than the Arca.

If you are patient you can do better than an Ebony or Chamonix IMHO. If you are impatient, get the heavier 8x10 Cambo for $400 and plop it on the Majestic and see whether you can even afford to shoot 8x10 film and find the whole process worthwhile? It may not be your ultimate 8x10 camera but at least you'll know whether you want to pursue it further. Frankly although I love many aspects of 8x10, my lack of owning one illustrates my decision ;-p

Remember that the weight of the holders and paraphernalia really adds up so you need to find your working style... if you try to walk for miles with a dozen 8x10 holders you'll understand. But going backpacking with two holders, as some have done, seems even more stupid.

If you do portraits, having a heavy camera and tripod is advantageous, not a hinderance. You can bump it, slam the holders in, not pay as much attention to it and concentrate on your subject without being overly fussy. Same if you use a lot of movements - go for the monorail and use simple, direct movements. Folders are cool designs but accessing movements is a bit like working a puzzle, and isn't using movements an important part of what this is about? Plus a lot of the people I see using them seem really anal and uptight about it all.... takes them forever to get the shot set up, they dither and dawdle, I often think they like bragging rights over owning a Deardorff more than using it.

[E. von Hoegh]

One thing to keep in mind, is that if you buy a camera - any camera - at a fair price, you will be able to resell it at no loss if you decide that the camera (or format) is not for you.
My first 8x10 is also the 8x10 I still have, 20+ years later. A Deardorff V8, made in 1950. Weighs about 13 1/2 pounds, 30" of bellows, movements which will use up the coverage of most any lens you are likely to use, and rigid enough if the rear standard sliders aren't worn out.

[cosmicexplosion]

You cant get beat up... Words will never hurt you
Every single human on this site used to shit their nappys once
So.....
I got a Kodak 2d after buying a sinar 810 and a sinar 45
They dont get used
Myth one, a field camera is not a studio camera
Of course it is. Just depends where you use it.
I read what you said.
And will fall on deaf ears but I have two of the best mono rails gathering dust
Ashe Kodak 2d does every thing I want.
Unless you want extreme movements

But I found a monorail a burdon trying to cart around
So I don't bother
Now I just keep my 2d in the van and am ready in a few minutes
I think I paid 400 shipping to oz cost me 200
And guess what
It works

The other sweet thing is that people have a very warn response to the 2d
The sinar is just a black junk of modern life

If you want z mono rail for extre movements I would suggest making a large box
You can hang it in so you don't need to keep taking it a part and putting it back together


You could always paInt the Kodak black !

You can make lens boards for cents to the dollar as well

Light

Cheap

Resale high

Works

The only bit you will get stick on is finding the mythical beast of cheap and brilliant.

[Cletus]

E., I think that's good advice and the possibility of reselling (if it doesn't work out) is a primary consideration if I end up going for a folder. I thought about a Deardorff for this very reason, as the cameras and accessories seem to be abundant on the used market. The only reason I haven't already pulled the trigger on a V8 Dorff is when I compare it to the newer design Shen Hao (or Chamonix for a grand more) there isn't much difference in the initial price point and I think I'll have a better chance of gettng a good sample buying one new. Last thing I need is a problem camera to turn me off on the format altogether.

If I could find a 'cheap' 8x10 monorail that didn't weigh 36lbs to start with, I'd be inclined to give it a go. I have both types - a field and monorail - in 4x5 and I can definitely appreciate the easier movements and more straightforward operation of the studio camera, just not sure how well that will translate into 8x10, where it'll pretty much all be outdoor use. Even 20lbs is pretty heavy for a camera and even though I don't stray far from the truck, as I mentioned, I'm still not sure it's worth the hassel. The other problem with the monorail is that a folder will easily go into a camera bag or backpack!

The lightweight Arca monorail sounds pretty intriguing, but I don't think I've ever seen one on the used market. Even Arca-Swiss 4x5s seem to be pretty scarce. I guess nobody is selling?

[AnselAdamsX]

Some of the field cameras are not that light either. I'm looking at a Toyo 810M and its 15lbs. The Canham JMC is 9lbs. I have a Sinar P2 8x10 rear with a Sinar F front and it weighs 16 or 17 lbs. I wouldn't worry about the Gitzo tripod handling the weight. I have a 3 series and it handled a 23lb full Sinar P without any problem.

[E. von Hoegh]

E., I think that's good advice and the possibility of reselling (if it doesn't work out) is a primary consideration if I end up going for a folder. I thought about a Deardorff for this very reason, as the cameras and accessories seem to be abundant on the used market. The only reason I haven't already pulled the trigger on a V8 Dorff is when I compare it to the newer design Shen Hao (or Chamonix for a grand more) there isn't much difference in the initial price point and I think I'll have a better chance of gettng a good sample buying one new. Last thing I need is a problem camera to turn me off on the format altogether.

If I could find a 'cheap' 8x10 monorail that didn't weigh 36lbs to start with, I'd be inclined to give it a go. I have both types - a field and monorail - in 4x5 and I can definitely appreciate the easier movements and more straightforward operation of the studio camera, just not sure how well that will translate into 8x10, where it'll pretty much all be outdoor use. Even 20lbs is pretty heavy for a camera and even though I don't stray far from the truck, as I mentioned, I'm still not sure it's worth the hassel. The other problem with the monorail is that a folder will easily go into a camera bag or backpack!

The lightweight Arca monorail sounds pretty intriguing, but I don't think I've ever seen one on the used market. Even Arca-Swiss 4x5s seem to be pretty scarce. I guess nobody is selling?

Buying a new camera is fine if you know are going to keep it. Sell it, and you are guaranteed to take a beating. You might see if you can borrow, or even rent a camera.