Hi,
My employer had had an LVT Saturn 1010 Film Recorder transferred to local site 3 years back. However it never been used since no manuals, WI nor driver to operates it. Where can I get manual / user guide and driver to operate it?
Thank you in advance.
I might be able to help even though I personaly used/owned only three different LVT models. The question is, what LVT recorder do you have exactly? Is it an early model controlled by a VMS based computer? If yes, I might be able to help with manuals, computer and more (there is one just being trashed here). The Vax/VMS based LVT recorders have no connected network port at the back and there are usualy two large flat datacables comming out of a hole of the back of the recorder wich are connected to an interface board in a Vax/VMS computer.
Or was the recorder upgraded and a normal PC controls the LVT recorder? I am afraid, I have never used one of these old upgraded machines. I think there have been at least two different upgrades available and I assume these upgraded recorders are most likely connected by a normal network cable (most likely BNC) with a computer. Here you might be able to use a Windows NT 3.5 - Windows XP based PCs (the Windows LVT Software I use does not install on Windows Vista/7 as the installer seems 16 Bit based). These machines are most likely rather similar to the Rhino and Rhino+ recoders in software and usage.
Maybe you can provide some images of the recorder incl. internals...
I am actually just preparing data for the last LVT users left (ie. AIM files and ICC color profiles for the latest slide films). Just in case someone else is reading this and interested in them....
Hi,
I'm sorry cause I was on holiday last week, alas haven't read mails.
Wow... a user of this machine... I thank you for your help.
I believe is an upgrade version because it has normal network cable. You mentioned that you have the SW (in windows XP) to operate this MC? Would be grateful if you could share it.
Other things are:
1. I don't even know to open the body cover to take a peek.
2. What film does it use? It still have film inside the roller.
3. Does it need replacement parts for maintenance / to keep running?
I have attached the pictures of the machine.
Thank you in advance.
Hello,
it was a long time ago I have used such a machine. So things might not be correct:
1. If I remember correctly, opening the machine was rather easy and you don't even need a screw driver. Check out the upper cover at the front. The upper cover is holded by two small sort of thumb screws at the front bottom that do not even have a thread. You just need to rotate them by 90 degree. No force needed. Than lift up the upper cover at the front. The side covers just hang on a steel frame. Once you opened the upper cover you can just lift the side covers up ~2cm and than remove them completly. There is usualy some sort of foam material used to ensure there is no light getting into the machines. Be carefull, that foam tape seems to easily fall apart after many years. No problems replacing it...
2. What film does it use? The LVT recoder can pretty much record any film or photo paper as long as you can mount on the drum, the material is not too thick and the sensitivity is good enough for the light source. So normal slide or negative films are no problems. While the machine was build for 8x10" films, it's usualy no big problem mounting 4x5" and 120 roll films. Now the bad news is: The recorder needs to be setup for the wanted material and lab used to work correctly. The recorder internaly saves "material" settings. These settings basicly control wich drum speed (ie. exposure time), wich filter position (there is a filter wheel inside the recorder that allows you to install several filters for different materials. The filters allow you to balance the R,G,B output so that it is roughly neutral), print resolution and aperture size. Now that you obviously do not have any data on this, your first job most likely is to find out wich filters are installed and the material settings used. Usualy I did simply measure the filters of the filter wheel from a machine I bought used and read out the material settings. Often this gives me a pretty idea what materials have been used with the machine and it was setup for. You do note that there still is a film mounted on the machine? If it's a plane and not a roll film you can tell wich film it is by the side marking. Most likely one of the material settings of the machine is for this film and is a good starting point. Roll films might need to be developed first to tell the type from the side printing. Finding the perfect filter and material setup is definitly something that usualy takes some hours work - for tricky things even days. But this is something rather specific we should discuss by private mail and let's hope it has a material setup that works decently for you to get started. I am afraid you will not find description on setting up filters in the manual as in the good old film recorder days you called a service guy for this. They did setup the machines for the wanted material/lab on site. Don't worry... it's usualy not too complicated... but a bit time consuming if never done/unexperienced and you need to invest in 3-4 films.
So let's assume you have a filter and setup for the material you want to use and you roughly do get a decent output. Than things are rather easy and you only need to follow the LVT manual (wich is pretty ok I think... "me stupid"got it running this way without help). The above mentioned material setup will not give you an perfect output. It's only a rather rough adjustment. The manual describes how to calibrate the machine precisly in order to get a perfect output. The LVT recoder has a 12 Bit R,G,B output. It uses a LUT to convert 8 Bit R,G,B image data to 12 Bit output data. The LUT is generated by the LVT software. You basicly need to output a grayscale wedge on film. The 26 patches of that grayscale wedge are than measured (you must have something like an X-Rite 811 for your LVT! Is there one?) using the LVT software wich than generates the LUT for correct output. Actually, this has to be repeated everytime the output changes from the wanted aim values (ie. new film charge, lab changes...) and thus is a rather simple process. There are so called "aim" files available for each film/paper material. These are text files you can simply edit and basicly allow you to define the density values the generated output LUT should provide. There are a number of aim files shipped with the software, but most of them are for old materials. As said, I am just preparing AIM files and ICC color profiles for more modern slide films (Provia 100F, Velvia 50, Velvia 100, E100G).
3. These recorders are pretty much build to last. There is not really much service needed. There is only one mechanical part you should take great care of or else you are asking for trouble. The screw and that huge steel bar the optical head moves with/on needs to be clean and properly oiled (warning: you need special screw oil for this, contact me by email... I have plenty left). These are highly precisse mechanics with little tolerance. So if the screw is not handled well, you will get stuck optical heads or stripes in the output and even make the machine usuable if the metal surface is distroyed because of lack of oil. So make sure the machine has oil as I often found this to be the main problem with old used machines. It actually only needs very very little oil... This is pretty much the only thing I "service".
So you do have a network cable coming out of the LVT? This might be good news. I see no network connector on your images. Or is that flat light gray cable I see in one pic really a network cable? To me it rather looks like one of the flat gray terminal cables mainly used for the logging purposes (on the old LVTs you could also edit the internal material settings this way).
My knowledge is very limited on old LVT recorders with network connector as I never used one of them. Contact me by private mail and we will see what else you need and we will what can be provided/organized.
So it will most likely take you at least 20-30 hours work and some films until the machine is running. So you need to invest something to get it running.... But these are still increadible machines and hardly matched by anything else in quality... with film or paper...
Last edited by coloraid; 31-Aug-2012 at 06:07.
I bought a used Kodak LVT 1620B connected via the large flat data cables to a VAXserver 4000-200 that has no manuals. I was able to boot the VAX into the VMS prompt but have no idea where to go from there. Is there a program one runs from the prompt that launches something like a GUI (or interactive script) that allows one to access the two SCSI data drives, set the color profile, and send the data to the LVT (which also powers up)? Any help you might give to get me rolling would be much appreciated.Originally Posted by coloraid
Thanks, Jack
@straton: Sorry, I do not have that Vax/LVT anymore and I really can't remember the programs names.
Yes, the VMS based LVT software are basicly some sort of small console based programs that are mainly called by a menu driven tool. Check the drive and you should find the tool I can't remember the name of (lvtuis, printer_1???). When started, you should get a menu displayed. The good news is, that my old VMS based LVT is most likely still at a friends site. He still should have some of the documentation to get you started. E-Mail me on junk@coloraid.de . I only got a single page documentation with the LVT when I bought it used from Detroit, but thanks to being mainly DCS scripts, one can pretty much find out everything else by just checking the drives content.
There were basicly two scripts/programs that you had to use. One was a DCS script you had to edit/start in order to print/measure calibration targets. The other was a interactive tool that basicly controlled all the image convertion and printing. The tool actualy showed you what arguments were used to call the various programs in case you want to call the programs yourself without the menu driven tool (just like the calibration DCS script does).
For the actual printing, as far as I can remember, you basicly had to transfer uncompressed TIFF images to the Vax using FTP. Than call a menu driven tool to convert the TIFF image to a LVT image format+description file. Once you have an LVT image you can start the printing of that image in background using that tool. The LVT image format used is actually just the plain RGB data without any headers (if you print a lot, I should be able to compile a Windows console tool for converting BMP to LVT... wich is a lot faster than doing it on the VAX).
The recorder itself can be calibrated to various materials and print resolutions. If you are lucky, you find already calibration data from the former user that you can base on. Otherwise you might need to first find out the correct filter to balance/limit the light of the printer, than determine the drum speed (=max exposure time) for a given print resolution before getting a working LUT. Even for an experienced person this job usualy takes hours, so just hope, that the printer was already setup for the wanted material. In this case you might only need to update the calibration LUT using 1-2 calibration prints. As the LVT printers can greatly differ, the calibration setup is specific to the printer used and you likely can not simply take someone elses setup without some adjustments.
As far as profiles are concerned, many seem to have used the LVT printer without any profiles. Only the calibration LUT is usualy updated regulary to compensate changes in the lab. If you want to use profiles, you better apply the profiles before sending the data to the VAX.
Warning: Before using the film recorder, make sure that the screw for the optics is in good shape and has oil. Also the metal bar the optics slide on should have oil. Do not use normal oil for the screw. Use the screw oil you should have got with the printer or contact me. If there is no oil, you quickly can run into damages or problems during printing. Most LVT printers I got first had some problems with stuck step motors, misaligned switches,... . So take your time, be patient and think before trying to do something risky.
Merry Christmas and to all a Great New Years.
my request is simple I brought a Kodak LVT 1010 and Rhino a while back and installed it in my darkroom and the computer in my dry space in another room. I did not touch the system after I did the installation. I did not test the system after that. Both system worked before I purchase both systems. I am almost ready to retire and I want to get back to what I love doing shooting.
Now for my request, I am looking for someone to help me set up my systems.
thank you, George I can also be reach at 347 419 4142
There are not many people left knowing how to setup these machines correctly. Luckely I know there are forum members here with good knowledge of the LVT/Rhinos. So feel free to ask. You can also email me on junk@coloraid.de. Setting up the machines correctly for your wanted materials/lab for the first time is a bit work intensive. But being able to calibrate these machines to your material/lab is one of the reasons why they are so much better than "cheap" solutions. Even with decent darkroom/computer knowledge you might easily spend 10-20 hours work on it setting things up for the first time. So you should plan on hiding yourself in your darkroom for one weekend for it ;-)
Or are you looking for a person close to you who could visit and setup things in a day like the original Kodak service guys did in the past? I do not know were you are located? 314 is NY? Ian from http://www.prepressexpress.com is most likely the closest person I know with good knowledge of the Rhino.
PS: Be prepared... I bought several "working" LVT/Rhinos used and there were always some kind of minor problems with the hardware that needed to be fixed first. Especialy the two microswitches at the Rhinos front door were often misaligned when the machines arrived here. If one switch signals an open door while the other signals a closed door, a fuse inside the machine blows up the first time you try to print ;-)
Thanks to my several years old postings here several LVT film recorder users did contact me for info of the years. So I have started working on some info on
http://www.lvt.coloraid.de
As my time is very limited, not all info is yet available. So consider it work in progress. But I think it has reached a level were it can be usefull and thus my note of the link here.
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