Question about X-ray film, and a lens for 8x10.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Not sure why you posted this here but...Bill, I'm not sure what you mean special effects with xray film other than it will render yellows and reds as very dark grays to black. I use the green sensitive type and quite like it. I contact print to make carbon transfer prints, so I don't care about it having emulsion on both sides. Prints still look quite sharp to me. I certainly wouldn't enlarge it but some people strip the emulsion from the backside of the film before doing so.
This film with a light yellow filter (#8 kodak wratten) will seperate clouds from blue sky, but of course not as dramatically as you can with a red filter on pan film. A red filter will result in a clear sheet of xray film. I sometimes use a green #57 to slightly lighten foliage.
Why not photograph a pretty girl with xray film?? I've seen some lovely portraits taken with it (not in person, mind you).
It's cheap. Try it.

[ic-racer]

Ic-racer, so it sounds like you would not use x-ray film for a fine print, say of a female model. But it may be a cheap way of getting special effects.

Many subjects out there have a limited tonal range and would give excellent results X-ray film. I'd like to try 8x10 x-ray film some time but don't have any way to process it.

[Jody_S]

No one in that thread posted a curve that I could find, leaving much of what it discussed somewhat of a mystery. From my work in the x-ray field I can say that the available tonal scale does not have a nice long straight line like T-max.

For example, Alsubael (2009) studied H&D curves from 26 x-ray clinics shown below. As you can see the straight line portion is only about 3 stops and the total available range about six!
Attachment 77619


In terms of sharpness. X-ray films don't have to be very sharp because the are (were) usually viewed at the original size and the images recorded are shadows with penumbras which limit the sharpness of conventional radiography.

Thank you, this is very helpful. I've been trying pull processing, pre-flashing, etc, to try to tame the contrast a little, but obviously nothing is going to make detail magically appear where it simply isn't present on the negative.

[premortho]

I like the way it renders colors, especially with a light yellow filter There is another thread on here in the darkroom film section with more than 50 pages of info on x-ray film some with images, including portraits...check them out and decide if you like the results. I started using ortho film in 1948, and my grandfather taught me to use pan film for women over thirty, and ortho for everything else. I was 10 years old at the time, and was sure he knew all there was to know about photography. Well, maybe he didn't know everything---but he knew a lot. He started in photography in about 1895.

premortho, why are you attracted to orthochromatic? Again, I am a newbie, but still confused, panchromatic captures tones similar to how our eyes see them. Orthochromatic is not sensitive to red. The major color in skin tones is red. Orthochromatic does not do a good job of showing clouds in the sky.
Yes I can see how it is more convenient to use a red filter in the darkroom, but from what I am seeing I would not use orthochromatic to photograph a pretty girl.
What am I missing?

[premortho]

If I may make another point...What you need more than how sharp the film is and how many of this and that it does/does not have, is experience. I bought 100 sheets of 8X10 blue single sided x-ray film for 36 dollars, including shipping. If my math is right, that's 36 cents a sheet. You can afford to make a lot of mistakes at 36 cents a sheet. You can learn about composition, composing on the ground glass, how to use a dark cloth, how to develope by doing it under a red light, how to use a light meter, if your tripod is sturdy enough, why some people use bulb (air) release instead of cable release, and on and on. By the time you are 3/4's of the way through that 100 sheets you will be ready for expensive Panchromatic film---like Tri-x 320 speed..the only pan film I use. Hope this helps you.

[Randy]

Bill, I got into using X-ray film with my 8X10 for one reason - cost. The least expensive panchromatic film I could find was Arista EDU from Freestyle and it cost about $2.50 a sheet compared to about $.40 a sheet for CSX green X-ray film. I have been pleasantly surprised with the results but if I could afford panchromatic films I'd probably just stick with them.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

So I guess I'll add my .02. I shoot green and blue x-ray film in three sizes. 8x10, 11x14 and 14x17. I find that for me it works great especially for my pictoralist, portrait and landscape work. Is it critically as sharp as my normal Efke-25? No. I print in carbon transfer like Andrew and I find it works great for my process. No stripping or any of that crap. It is cheap. Learn how to use it for your process. Read all you can and then just do it! You learn by doing and making mistakes. I use it with my students and it makes a lot of sense because of the cost.I'll attach a couple of PRINTS that I scanned and you can judge for yourself.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Thanks everyone,
I definitely have to gain some experience. I WILL order 100 sheets of X-ray film and see what I can do with it. If my prints come out close to Jim's I'll be really happy. Those really are nice.
What developer do you recommend I start with? The thread on x-ray film has some one using cafinol or something like that, and his prints looked really nice, good tonal range. There are so many to choose from, what are the differences between the common choices, results? cost? ease of use? etc...

Lastly, I want to follow everyone's recom and get a 12 inch lens, preferably with a shutter. What specific lens do you recom?
Thanks again,
Bill

[Corran]

You're right, the images dev'd with caffenol look really nice, I still need to try it. However I've found that Rodinal 1:100 does really well. So you might start with that since many have stated it works well with x-ray film. I rate mine at 50 and develop for 7 minutes in a BTZS tube and then strip the rear emulsion. If you want you can find lots of x-ray images on my blog.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I use Pyrocat-HD 1:1:100. 6 minutes dip and dunk for my 8x10. D-76 is good as well. Develop in a red safe light. works great. Printing in carbon well, that is a different story.