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Thread: For BW project, shoot color or BW?

  1. #11

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    Re: For BW project, shoot color or BW?

    Wow didn't know they no longer existed 4x5...

    Yes I get the fact you are planning a hybrid workflow.

    So shoot color and convert to BW post-process, I don't think you will have bad results.

    If I felt I wanted the relatively grain-free color aesthetic of color converted to BW, I would be very careful not to reveal two shots side by side derived from the same image where one is color and the one next to it is BW. If I converted an image to BW for my portfolio, I would lock it down virtually as BW and wouldn't allow color variants to hit the internet.

  2. #12

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    Re: For BW project, shoot color or BW?

    I'd shoot color and convert to gray scale. There's a lot of control to be had in Photoshop. I also like options. What if your client asks, "How much for a color print?"

  3. #13

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    Re: For BW project, shoot color or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevs-2323668 View Post
    thanks Frank, well that's why I'm posting! I'd love to hear others who have done this simple experiment and hear their opinions. You have not shot in color 4x5 and then scanned, then made it a BW and then printed?
    Frank has, and his work is worth seeing.

  4. #14

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    Re: For BW project, shoot color or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevs-2323668 View Post
    thanks Frank, well that's why I'm posting! I'd love to hear others who have done this simple experiment and hear their opinions. You have not shot in color 4x5 and then scanned, then made it a BW and then printed?
    ??? I shoot color and convert it to B&W quite often. I also shoot color and use it as color. I use one type of film for everything. In the past I have shot most of the popular B&W films. I currently prefer the simplicity, consistency, and quality of using Kodak Porta 400 color negative film for everything I do. I think it is the best film ever made and perhaps the best film that ever will be made!

    As far as the cost goes, it is a lot higher but I don't overshoot with large format, or at least I try not to. Static subjects get only one sheet and humans maybe 2 to 6 per set-up. I don't get processing errors like a lot of home B&W workers can get, and I have a digital workflow so it is easy to fix any scratches, sometimes even flare and fog in a worse case scenario.

  5. #15

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    Re: For BW project, shoot color or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevs-2323668 View Post
    thanks, Vinny, price per sheet probably negligible.

    Bill, do you understand I'm not talking about converting to BW in a real darkroom, I scanning and then maybe going to BW --if color comes out as good as BW.

    Tmax is pretty darn good with grain. What films are chromogenic and are they less grain than Tmax?

    thanks Ken -- forget about filtering. I'm just shooting people portraits. What is your opinion then on this original topic?
    assuming you're speaking of color neg (that's what most portrait shooters use), your looking at $35+ for ten sheets and kodak is the only option vs. efke, foma, ilford, kodak, etc. for $1/sheet or less. If it's not your $$ then what the hell.

  6. #16

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    Re: For BW project, shoot color or BW?

    If you're shooting people, then you don't need to shoot in color unless you want to play around with the color of their clothing or the background.

    Film Speed:

    Grain aside, color transparency film is very contrasty and slow by comparison to something like Kodak TMAX 400 or Ilford HP5+. Color print film like Portra is faster, and has much better dynamic range. I don't know what happens to it during long exposures: my guess is that different dyes respond to low levels in their own way. A fast B&W film with good reciprocity characteristics is TMAX 400.

    Depth of Field:
    Remember that the longer the lens, the less the depth of field. Shooting from the same distance to get the same perspective, a 225mm lens (portrait length) at f/16 (on 4x5) will have the same depth of field as a 75mm lens at f/5.6 (on 35mm or "full-frame" digital) - which isn't a lot. That may or may not be an issue. If you need to stop down to f/32 or more, then your exposures may be prohibitively long unless you glue your subjects down, or light them up, or find good lighting outdoors. If they are young, they may not want to stand still... etc.

    Scanning Color Film
    More easily said than done. Each film has its own profile, where the color balance varies across brightness range. Scanning B&W is already a high art, and scanning color is a professional specialty (in my humble opinion).

    I'd shoot TMY or HP5+ at ISO 250 and consider myself fortunate. With the savings in materials, you can make many more shots - which can often be the key with portraits: more important than color versus b&w.

  7. #17

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    Re: For BW project, shoot color or BW?

    First, you can make excellent B&W prints whether you start with a color negative or a B&W negative. Depending on film you might have a slight resolution advantage with one or the other, or a slight grain advantage. But that depends more on the film itself than on whether it is color or B&W. There is no inherent look, IMHO, with either type film.

    The advantage to shooting color negative film is that you will have a tremendous amount of control of tonal values if you scan in RBG and convert to B&W in PS. Since you are in a digital mode at this point there will also be a huge amount of control of grain/noise and sharpness. The disadvantage of color is cost, and most importantly, less dynamic range.

    The advantage to B&W is cost, more personal control of outcome, and greater dynamic range.

    Either way, to take full advantage of color film you will need to have good PS skills, and to take full advantage of B&W you will need to have good skills in exposing and developing.

    Sandy
    Last edited by sanking; 12-Jun-2012 at 19:08.
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  8. #18
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    Re: For BW project, shoot color or BW?

    Greater dynamic range in B&W? Compared to color transparency, absolutely yes, but compared to color neg?

  9. #19

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    Re: For BW project, shoot color or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Greater dynamic range in B&W? Compared to color transparency, absolutely yes, but compared to color neg?
    Well, yes. B&W film, if exposed and developed appropriately, is capable of capturing a much wider subject brightness range than color negative film.

    Sandy
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  10. #20

    Re: For BW project, shoot color or BW?

    thanks, there is no client, it's fine art. I do see one future series as a BW print series, but if color is only $2 a shot more, and the prints will look just as good -- is not that a great option to be able to print color down the road if you want to? You may not ever do it, but who knows?

    I only bring it up because I come from pre digital where is was insane to not shoot BW for BW prints.

    Now if Frank or others were adamant that the prints will come out vastly better shooting with organic BW film then I'd probably then go BW film.

    I'm going "hybrid" as most do now -- film to scans, PS to prints.

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