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Thread: Pro printers...do you save any prints?

  1. #1

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    Pro printers...do you save any prints?

    What do you do with proof prints or prints that are only 98%? Do you ever save copies for yourself? Or do you always trash them? (I am talking about paid work, not your own.)

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Pro printers...do you save any prints?

    Never keep seconds ... Always ask the photographer to sign a printer proof which I keep for retirement....I only keep imagery that I will hang on my walls..
    To date I have over 200 signed pieces that someday will be auctioned off for my retirement needs.

    It is the kiss of death not to make your clients aware of your policys, and everyone that works with me understand that I may want a signed printer proof.
    Never have kept an image without my client being aware of the fact.

  3. #3

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    Re: Pro printers...do you save any prints?

    In my experience, b.a.t. prints (bon a trier, or literally "good to print" if my grade school french memories are correct) are a staple in the printmaking world. When we edition a print at school, it's typically an edition of 10, 2 artists proofs, 2 press proofs and a bat. I ran across a guide somewhere on the interwebs that had a recommended quantity listing for various print runs.

    Several visiting artists we've had over the last couple of years have remarked that other schools tend to be more liberal in their press proof quantities, some wanting several press proofs, as well as the first of an edition.

    When I print an edition of fine art repro's for artists, there's an entire section in the contract stipulating the bat and press proofs are retained, with signatures. To date no artist has ever complained or questioned it.

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    Re: Pro printers...do you save any prints?

    Quote Originally Posted by bob carnie View Post
    Never keep seconds ... Always ask the photographer to sign a printer proof which I keep for retirement....I only keep imagery that I will hang on my walls..
    To date I have over 200 signed pieces that someday will be auctioned off for my retirement needs.

    It is the kiss of death not to make your clients aware of your policys, and everyone that works with me understand that I may want a signed printer proof.
    Never have kept an image without my client being aware of the fact.


    Do you explain your retirement story to them? Or just ask for a signed copy as part of your print fee?

    Do you just do it with large prints, famous photogs or?

    What about museums / galleries? You make a print and it is not perfect...but almost perfect...do you trash it?

  5. #5

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    Re: Pro printers...do you save any prints?

    Quote Originally Posted by erie patsellis View Post
    In my experience, b.a.t. prints (bon a trier, or literally "good to print" if my grade school french memories are correct) are a staple in the printmaking world. When we edition a print at school, it's typically an edition of 10, 2 artists proofs, 2 press proofs and a bat. I ran across a guide somewhere on the interwebs that had a recommended quantity listing for various print runs.

    Several visiting artists we've had over the last couple of years have remarked that other schools tend to be more liberal in their press proof quantities, some wanting several press proofs, as well as the first of an edition.

    When I print an edition of fine art repro's for artists, there's an entire section in the contract stipulating the bat and press proofs are retained, with signatures. To date no artist has ever complained or questioned it.

    I've heard the term 'proof' over the years but did not know what it meant.

    Is a proof print one of the first prints on a run? Can it be different / lesser quality than a standard run print?

    What exactly does 'proof' mean?

  6. #6
    IanG's Avatar
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    Re: Pro printers...do you save any prints?

    Proof/test prints are those mnade while interpreting a negative while the final dodging/burning/toning etc is finalised and not the same quality as the final prints.

    Can't speak for the US/Canada etc but it's actually against the lawhere in the UK to make prints for yourself or profit/gain from the sale of proofs etc without the permission of the copyright owner, usually that's the photographer. Anything else is theft and people have paid heavily for infringing that when taken to court.

    You also have to obtain permission to use someone elses image you've printed in your own portfolio, but in most cases there's no objections.

    Ian

  7. #7

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    Re: Pro printers...do you save any prints?

    The b.a.t. is the reference, usually the two press proofs are the first run and should be identical to the b.a.t.

    As Ian stated, there are differences from country to country. My experience is primarily from the fine art printmaking (atelier) arena, where it was explained to me by my professors. Further research on my own confirmed most of what I was told, but there are variations from studio to studio. One of my professors has a rather extensive set of Rauschenberg prints from when he worked extensively with him for a period of about 8 years. The artist was fully aware of the existence of these prints, as he signed and numbered them as either artist proofs or press proofs (either a.p. or p.p. followed by a number)

  8. #8
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Pro printers...do you save any prints?

    No , I tell each client that I have decided I want one of their prints and leave it at that, I let them know its a printer proof and is mine. I try to keep the smaller prints in the 16 x20 range as the big murals take up too much space.

    I have traded scanning services for some pretty famous images that were produced for a local gallery show... the estate did not have
    money for scanning and printing and I offered up the services to be able to keep one colour and one black white final print , of the series. Two prints for about four days work.
    In my business a lot of printers did not do this and when the world went digital , some did not do so well as the client base completely moved.

    I always trash prints that I do not think are worthy of hanging. I see no mileage in keeping second quality prints.

    The signed print is not part of my print fee... I have a day rate plus the clients pay for the materials .. This allows me never to worry about wastage, never
    worry whether the client will like my job or not... I encourage my main clients that pay this rate to spend time in the darkroom with me and sign off on the density's, styles
    toning and so on.
    I am working with a very well know photographer who worked with musicians in the 60's, He still prints silver , but together we are making a platinum/carbon edition of his most
    compelling musicians. For this all I want is a signed print of each image for myself as the fee, no cost to him on all scans , negative output and final multiple printing on aluminum.. this is taking about three years to complete as there is a large cataloque to go through.

    If a client does not want me to have printer proofs , but wants me to print for them our relationship does not go too far and basically I move in other directions.

    I have always wanted to work with photographers who work on long term projects and with that are not famous when I meet them , we work together and 1 out of 10 move forward
    to the gallery / museum world.
    I have never approached photographers to work with them , specifically those with known bodies of work..... To me the print/image has already been done by someone else and all I can add is copying another printers work , which does not interest me in the least.

    I opened my small shop in 1991 and twenty years later some of my clients work is getting recognition and some are still unknown but will land on the museum/gallery circuits within the next five years.

    Retirement is a funny word , as I do not intend to stop printing , I see no reason too as I love Printing, so all the prints I am collecting will be shown at shows over the next years and at some
    point auctioned off or given to Canadian archives.
    I got lucky in life,, 1970 I was a west coast high lead logger and not very happy, went to photography school and fell in love with silver prints emerging from trays... going into the darkroom today while most Canadians are enjoying the May 24 weekend. My wife and I are building a monster darkroom in our living space to continue our love of printing.. she's a pretty shit hot printer herself.

    So if you are planning a career of printing for other then I feel its important , to only produce the best you can, throw out the seconds and keep a history of your accomplishments by insisting on signed printer proofs.



    Quote Originally Posted by slackercruster View Post
    Do you explain your retirement story to them? Or just ask for a signed copy as part of your print fee?

    Do you just do it with large prints, famous photogs or?

    What about museums / galleries? You make a print and it is not perfect...but almost perfect...do you trash it?

  9. #9
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Pro printers...do you save any prints?

    All our clients are very aware of what we are doing as they sign them and give them to me. The same law apply's here about usage without the owners knowledge.
    But this is now what I am talking about... I am talking about the collaboration with a client and a official pp printer proof that is signed by both the printer and the artist.

    my basic understanding is roughly this.

    PP - printer proof
    dp - display proof for gallery shows
    AP - 20 % of the edition
    edition - 1 - ???

    Louis Nadeau and others have written about this , and its basically the formula I follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by IanG View Post
    Proof/test prints are those mnade while interpreting a negative while the final dodging/burning/toning etc is finalised and not the same quality as the final prints.

    Can't speak for the US/Canada etc but it's actually against the lawhere in the UK to make prints for yourself or profit/gain from the sale of proofs etc without the permission of the copyright owner, usually that's the photographer. Anything else is theft and people have paid heavily for infringing that when taken to court.

    You also have to obtain permission to use someone elses image you've printed in your own portfolio, but in most cases there's no objections.

    Ian

  10. #10

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    Re: Pro printers...do you save any prints?

    Quote Originally Posted by IanG View Post
    Proof/test prints are those mnade while interpreting a negative while the final dodging/burning/toning etc is finalised and not the same quality as the final prints.

    Can't speak for the US/Canada etc but it's actually against the lawhere in the UK to make prints for yourself or profit/gain from the sale of proofs etc without the permission of the copyright owner, usually that's the photographer. Anything else is theft and people have paid heavily for infringing that when taken to court.

    You also have to obtain permission to use someone elses image you've printed in your own portfolio, but in most cases there's no objections.

    Ian
    Yes, I understand about the profit deal. Would there be a problem saving proofs for your own use? Enjoyment?

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