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Thread: Analogue or Digital?

  1. #1
    joseph
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    Analogue or Digital?

    This is one of my pet peeves-

    There can be so much heated debate about the word 'Bokeh' which actually refers to identifiable qualities within a picture, but when did people start referring to film photography as analogue photography? To me, it just implies that it's the opposite of digital, like Dog is the opposite of Cat...

    This is not a Film v. Digital argument, more of a question- given, in particular, the effects of reciprocity on the exposure of film, can it properly be termed 'Analogue' at all, or is it just a digital age affectation? Also, since a grain of silver is either exposed and developed, or unexposed and dissolved, surely it's more akin to a 1 0 digital, em, analogy, for want of a better word?

    If it can be argued that traditional photography is Analogue, then I'll accept it, but if there's dissent, then I might prefer to continue calling it film, or wet-plate, or whatever it is...

  2. #2
    jp's Avatar
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    Re: Analogue or Digital?

    It's analog but you don't have to call it that. It doesn't have to be linear nor follow a predictable log scale to be analog to answer your question about reciprocity.

    When I look at grain under the focusing scope, I see lots of shades of gray and not a uniform grid of pixels that are read according to a 8/12/14/16 bit digitizer chip.

  3. #3
    joseph
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    Re: Analogue or Digital?

    Thank you, I think that's enough for me.

    Also, although digital output is written and read as ones and zeros, doesn't a digital sensor behave in an analogue way?

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    IanG's Avatar
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    Re: Analogue or Digital?

    Unlike Digital there are far more grains of silver and these can each be exposed And develop to a greater or lesser extents so it's not a simple on/off analogy.

    Ian

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    Hack Pawlowski6132's Avatar
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    Re: Analogue or Digital?

    I believe that film, by definition, is a digital format. It uses discreet elements (like a pixel) to form the appearance of a continuous image. Good examples of Analog vs. Digital are LP Record vs. CD or Watch with a sweeping second hand vs. a watch with a second hand that is "clicking" along one sec at a time.

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    Re: Analogue or Digital?

    Quote Originally Posted by jb7 View Post
    Thank you, I think that's enough for me.

    Also, although digital output is written and read as ones and zeros, doesn't a digital sensor behave in an analogue way?
    no. Same as with sound. Digital recording has finite number of values per "slot". Analogue - virtually any. If it will make easier for you - if you have slot for numbers between 1 to 10.
    Digital might record only 1- 4 - 8 - 10 (e.g). Analogue can be any number like 5.9999954595 (depending on precision of actual device of course). So where digital will read 4 or 8 , your true value will never be restored.

    No matter how you normalize space of digits - you ending up with finite number of discrete values. Analogue is continious field by nature.

  7. #7
    joseph
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    Re: Analogue or Digital?

    Well that's all very well, but you don't seem to be comparing equally at pixel level. As Pawlowski mentioned, the discrete elements of a piece of film, the picture elements, are crystals of silver, or not. Either it's there or it isn't. Of course, if you choose to aggregate those grains into bigger areas to suit your position, then they will conform to your model, and you will have a continuous field.

    It's not a question of making it easy for me, it's a question of a description, analogue, that didn't exist before it was forced to, by the advent of digital. The distinction is a political one, not a descriptive one, otherwise there would be a lot of people subscribing to something called PUG...

  8. #8
    Hack Pawlowski6132's Avatar
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    Re: Analogue or Digital?

    A better point of comparison might be labeled organic vs. non-organic.

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    Re: Analogue or Digital?

    Quote Originally Posted by jb7 View Post
    Thank you, I think that's enough for me.

    Also, although digital output is written and read as ones and zeros, doesn't a digital sensor behave in an analogue way?
    Actually, there is nothing purely continuous (analog) or discrete (digital). All measurements are inherently uncertain.

    Under magnification, a straight line will look like a series of curves. Under magnification, a curve will look like a series of straight line segments.

    It all goes back to Euclid's Elements, the very first line: "A point is that which has no part". Nobody has ever found a point, or a line, or a curve. It's convenient to use the terms of course, but they are imaginary.

    To quote an old Chinese philosopher, "These two are merely relative, and both at source are emptiness".

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    Re: Analogue or Digital?

    Quote Originally Posted by jb7 View Post
    Well that's all very well, but you don't seem to be comparing equally at pixel level. As Pawlowski mentioned, the discrete elements of a piece of film, the picture elements, are crystals of silver, or not. Either it's there or it isn't.
    No, they are here, there or elsewhere, big, small or non-existent. That is, they have non-discrete variable size, position and density! Which is very different from pixels, which are (at least in all current digital recording processes) fixed size and position and will only vary in density, in discrete steps.

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