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Thread: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

  1. #1

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    6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Just thinking loudly - is there a 6x12 camera that would allow for tilt movements? I know some 6x12 offer shift, but for landscape work the tilt would be more useful in my opinion. A few degrees would do the job for most shots.

    I know - one can always attach a 6x12 back to 4x5 camera - but that means attaching heavy back to camera that is not too light to begin with. In my case (Tachihara 4x5 - no Graflock back - that would mean to use something like Sinar ZOOM back. I have never used one though).

    What would be your thoughts?
    Matus

  2. #2

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    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Chamonix with a 6x12 back would be pretty light and pretty versatile. I love mine.

  3. #3
    Youngin Daniel Stone's Avatar
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    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    A friend of mine uses a Master Technika w/ a Linhof 6x12 rollfilm back. It uses the graflock slides to retain it. Not sure if it can slide under the g/g, its pretty chunky. Super solid though, and is reported to hold the film super duper flat.

    Not cheap though, heck, its Linhof .

    The other option is just shoot 4x5 and then crop it in post/scanning. Less equipment to carry that way, and you end up with a thicker negative/chrome to work with, easier(IMO) to handle than floppy 120/220 rollfilm, and must easier to store.

    YMMV

    -Dan

  4. #4

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    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Cropping 4x5 not too practical - the point of 6x12 in my view is not only the format, but the lack of necessity of carrying 4x5 holders (or even the changing tent for longer trips).

    I am wondering whether a small 6x12 monorail (I would not really need longer lenses than 180 or 240 at most) which would use the back from something like Gaoersi 6x12 camera with some movements on the front would not be the best option. Never heard of such a thing though. The point would be a camera that is bit more compact and lighter than 4x5 with 6x12 roll film back.

    Or something a'la Hasselblad Flexbody ...
    Matus

  5. #5

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    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Matus,

    I agree that the entire point of shooting 6x12cm is to shoot roll film thereby saving bulk/weight.

    AFAIK, there are no 6x12 monorails available. There are a handful of 6x9 cameras if you don't mind losing the image width.

    I opted for a Chamonix 4x5 and Horseman 6x12cm RFH. This relatively small/lightweight "4x5" kit is dedicated solely to 6x12cm roll film and I'll never carry any DDS holders with it. If I want 2:3 ratio I have the choice of cropping to 6x9 or stitching to 8x12cm... 75x112mm to be more precise. It's a pretty good option, IMHO.

  6. #6

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    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Yes, there is, and it does involve a 4-5, or better yet a 5-7 camera, BUT no film back.

    You can get 4 almost 6X12 images on a single sheet of 4X5 film, or 4 full 6X17 (cut to 6X12) if you like on a single sheet of 5X7, AND a LF camera that has rise/fall front and back to center the modified opening in the Dark Slide cut for framing the opening to accomplish two exposures per sheet of film. All you need do is sacrifice ONE dark slide by cutting an opening for the desired format in one half of the dark slide

    Take a dark slide for the appropriate double sheet film holder, for either camera, and score/cut a hole the desired format dimension, on a location that is half the dark slide. Try to leave a border, as cutting the slide completely in half makes execution in use a bit tricky.

    Then, when you put the modified Dark Slide in the opening, you will have an opening to shoot one image on the top of the 4x5/5x7 film in the regular film holder. You need only to reverse the modified (cut) dark slide to get another image on the other half of the film sheet.

    Put the regular (non opening slide) back in the camera, reframe and reposition (center) the new image location, compose on the lower half of the GG, pull the slide, insert the modified Dark Slide (opening hole down), take the shot, and re-insert regular dark slide. Now you can also get two more images on the second film sheet in the film holder.

    Benefits:

    movements
    2 exposures per sheet of film
    more emulsions available in LF film
    No Graflok required... can be done on any camera a normal DDS double film holder will fit
    No heavy pano film back
    much less expensive using more common LF cameras and lenses rather than $3000 to $5000 of dedicated panoramic equipment with no movements.
    Can be done with the lightest monorail containing rise/fall front and back.
    Can be done with a light field camera, where rise/fall perspective control is limited and won't affect final image.
    Remember that where rise/fall is limited in one direction, set your settings for rise or fall only and flip the back 180 degrees for the second shot centering.

    This is a bit more fiddly in tracking exposed frames, BUT a real solution to movements on Roll film, and the more limited availability of roll film. Plus if you are already set up to process 4X5/5X7.... Hey!!!

    I've simplified this a bit, but hope you get the idea. It works for me....

    I have a more complete work flow listed out on this method.

  7. #7

    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Quote Originally Posted by Matus Kalisky View Post
    JI know - one can always attach a 6x12 back to 4x5 camera - but that means attaching heavy back to camera that is not too light to begin with. In my case (Tachihara 4x5 - no Graflock back - that would mean to use something like Sinar ZOOM back. I have never used one though).
    The Sinar Zoom is huge, and heavy. The Horseman 6x12 rollholder is much smaller and lighter. I expect it would go nicely with one of the lightweight 4x5 wide angle field cameras like the Ebony SW45 or the Shen-Hao TFC45-IIB.

  8. #8

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    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Kuzano... You cannot get even two 6x12cm images on 4x5... you can only get two 6x9.5cm images per 4x5 sheet and that would require a strange (and easily-broken) pair of half dark slides. He could get two 4.5x12cm images using half dark slides but that is cropping a bit much, IMHO and 120 roll film will net better images. You can only get two 6x17cm images per sheet of 5x7 with a half dark slide. This would be an option if the OP wasn't trying to save bulk and weight. I realize you understand about the dark slides and how to make them but the resulting image size on 4x5 is smaller than 6x12cm and this method is not saving bulk and weight... unless he only carries two DDS and no light tent or extra film

  9. #9
    toyotadesigner's Avatar
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    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    These two are dedicated 6x17 with tilt, shift, rise, swing:


    Ebony


    Shen Hao

    Attach a 6x12 back and you are set.

    Or use a 4x5 with Graflock back and attach a 6x12 roll film back.
    No espere demasiado tiempo para empacar una mochila, de lo contrario sus sueños se han ido de nuevo.

  10. #10
    jadphoto
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    Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

    Matus,

    I use the Sinar Zoom back and you're right, it's heavy. Previously I used a Horseman, much lighter, good film flatness, but requires removing the ground glass on most cameras which I didn't care for.

    Calumet/Cambo does make a 6x12cm back that is one of the venerable C2n series (6x7, 6x9, and 6x12cm). Some will put these down for various reasons but my experience has been generally positive. The 6x12 Calumet/Cambo is relatively scarce but the later (all black) ones seem to have solved the occasional frame spacing problems of the older (silver film advance) ones. The Calumet/Cambo units are light weight, reliable, will fit any camera without removing the gg (AFAIK), and aren't terribly expensive, although the 6x12 is the most expensive of the series due to it's scarcity.

    JD

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