Newbie, exploring options....Advice PLEASE

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Hello everyone,
I want to try my hand at LF and probably MF too. All I have so far is 35mm
I saw an add that reads as follows:
"Hasselblad 500C 150 lens 1962, Film back 1961, prism view finder.

Like new 4x5 TOYO camera with 150mm lens, 10 film holders and a nice alum carrying case.

All for $600.

I called and he said that it all works fine, all movements work as they should. Phone call was very short because of my work.

My question is, is that a reasonable price? I do not know the brand of lens.
When I call again what should I be asking?

Thanks,
Bill

[Lachlan 717]

If you get a 'blad and the Toyo kit for $600, and it's all working, I'd say you could be on to a VERY good deal.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Thanks, I hope so. Question is what should I be on the look out for? I've had a very brief experience (training) back in the 70's with an 8x10, I have never even seen a LF or a Hasselblad since. I imagine I just cock the shutter and listen to the quality and duration of the sound? What about the lens, I pick one up and I see a flaw, (probably will) what is acceptable?
Is it true that age does not matter in Hasselblads?

Thanks,
Bill

[MIke Sherck]

Toyo makes several models of camera; I know they made at least one monorail model but I don't know whether they made a folding camera. Monorails typically sell for less than folding cameras ("field" cameras,) because they're less friendly to carry and if $600 is for an old Toyo monorail with some ancient 150mm uncoated lens then $600 would be too much. On the other hand, if it's a recent multi-coated lens from Rodenstock, Schneider, Fujinon or Nikon then perhaps it isn't so bad. If it's a folding camera with a modern lens then it's probably a decent, if not fabulous, deal. If the Hasselblad is included, $600 is a very good price for that alone; the Toyo etc. should be considered to be free.

Like most things, pricing this stuff is a matter of degrees. To be more accurate we'd need model numbers or good close clear photos, or both. Also, be sure to ask whether the Toyo's bellows are light-tight. A few pinholes can be fixed easily but big holes, tears along seams, etc. mean a new bellows, likely in the $150 range.

Mike

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Yes it's $600 for both cameras, 2 lens, and a carrying case. It is a view camera.
It may sound stupid but how do you test for pinhole leaks? A dark room and a flashlight? I imagine that I will meet him at a public place and the sale will be made at a Shoney's or something like that. Probably no dark room available. Cosmetics on the Hasselblad??? Is it important? It could be a sign of misuse, but if it looks OK and sounds OK then I guess I'll go for it. I will be passing through his area in 2 weeks, I hope it's still available.

[MIke Sherck]

Age always matters, Bill! My body reminds me of that on a regular basis. When it comes to cameras, especially models like Hasselblad, soft foam is used for light seals and it deteriorates over time. Sometimes it crumbles, sometimes it turns into sticky taffy. Replacing seals isn't rocket science and you can get the materials (foam) for $10-$20 and do it yourself, but you should be aware of it.

Lenses have two major weaknesses to watch out for: shutters which range from merely being off of the specified speeds to completely broken, and major problems with the glass. Old shutters probably need a cleaning ("CLA" = Cleaning, Lubrication, and Adjustment".) Maybe $150 or so. Broken shutters need repair or replacement, and will cost from two to five times the cost of a CLA. Try cocking and releasing the shutter at each shutter speed and aperture; each time, listen to the sound the shutter makes and look a the aperture blades through the lens. The sounds of the shutter should vary from very slow at slow speeds to fast at the faster speeds; this doesn't tell you how accurate the shutter is but it will tell you whether it's working at all speeds or not. Similarly, it tells you whether the aperture opens and closes smoothly and that all the blades function properly.

For the glass, hold the lens up to a bright light so that the light just skims the surface of the lens. This will pick out any marks on the glass. There will likely be a smudge or two, from hurried cleaning; one or two light smudges likely won't be noticable. Scratches, chips! or fuzzy growth on or inside the lens mean that the lens needs more help than you may wish to give it. Scratches and chips can't be fixed and mold or mildew may have etched the glass permanently. There will be dust! Can't be helped and you'll add your share over time. Some brands of lenses, Schneider in particular and also some models of older Fujinon lenses, have a problem where sometimes black paint inside the lens loosens in small flakes over time and accumulates around the outer edges of the lenses. Most of the time this "Schneider-itis" or "Fuji-itis" is harmless but if it looks like someone has sprinkled pepper over the interior of the lens, don't buy it. Cleaning, like mold, requires disassembly of the lens, getting it right is not as simple as it sounds, and there's no point since there are other examples of these lenses in excellent condition for very reasonable prices.

Hope this helps!

Mike

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

I'll call him tomorrow and ask more questions, I'll post them tomorrow.
I'll ask about the manuf of the lens. I know that the Hasselblad comes with a 150 lens made in 1962.
How do you evaluate a lens??? If I can't see thru it... I ain't gonna buy it. Can someone help me be a little more specific than that?
Thanks, Bill

[MIke Sherck]

$600 for both sounds like a steal, providing that the Hasselblad works and that the lenses and shutters aren't completely broken. Yes,to test a bellows you need a flashlight and a dark room but at this price, I wouldn't bother. If you can't poke your fingers through the holes I wouldn't worry about it: you can cover them with tape until you figure out what you want to do permanently.

The value of a Hasselblad is always increased the closer to mint condition it appears; for most of us, a working Hasselblad for $600 would be satisfactory. Your feelings may be different. Hasselblads can be reconditioned and/or repaired but it won't be inexpensive. Lots of old beater Hasselblads came onto the market eight or ten years ago when many of the pro studios went digital and there are a lot of happy users who got them at good prices and don't really care what they look like. If you want it for resale, though, you likely care more about cosmetics.

Mike

[MIke Sherck]

I'm not all that familiar with Hasselblads, Bill, so I can't go into great detail. Others here can. For myself, I'd ask the seller to cock the shutter at each shutter speed and hold it up to a strong light while he trips the shutter. I'd be looking into the lens, watching to see whether the aperture blades close and re-open smoothly, while I listen to the shutter. If that all works, I'd be satisfied.

Mike

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Mike, thanks, I feel more informed, I finally know what CLA stands for!!!
It sounds like if I do not like the lens, both of them, then maybe I should consider passing, dependent on how the other things look. Putting it another way the glass is the most important, right? But if the TOYO looks in fine shape and the Hasselblad with prism view finder looks great then should I consider $600 just for the 2 cameras and case?