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Thread: Master or journeyman

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrus View Post
    After all, Ansel wasn't ALWAYS a great photographer. There must have been a period of time when he took NOT SO GREAT photos, before he became a great photographer.
    I think a lot of artists spend their lives living up to the days of their youth when their technique set a new standard and their vision was unique.

    One of my favorite Adams photos is "Monolith", ca. 1927, when Adams was a 25-year-old unemployed concert pianist and a photographic hobbyist.

    Rick "suspecting there was never a period after which Adams gained technical control when he made neither great photos nor not-so-great photos" Denney

  2. #22
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Master or journeyman

    Income? No. I know all kinds of full time/income photographers that are technical and aesthetic idiots.

    I have made my full income from photography since 1978 (....idiot?) and IMO that is not a measurement of much except determination and marketing. There are other things that have happened in the course that means much more-recognition by peers, publications, museum exhibits, being asked to teach at top universities etc.-much of which pays poorly (sometimes not at all), but has allot more mojo than earning a fulltime check from photography.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  3. #23

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    Re: Master or journeyman

    Have you ever wondered about the title "master printer" so often seen in PR materials, workshop brochures, and exhibit descriptions? Who assigns that title? Probably impressive to the un-informed, but seems a little sleasy to me, being as how I am unaware of any such professionaly awarded designation. But, because there are no standards, I suppose anyone can call himself a "master printer."
    Wayne
    Wayne Lambert
    Colorado Springs, Colorado
    www.waynelambert.net

  4. #24
    indecent exposure cosmicexplosion's Avatar
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    Re: Master or journeyman

    even a master is at the mercy of the muse....
    through a glass darkly...

  5. #25

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    Re: Master or journeyman

    I have known a few household name photographers over the years, and in unison, they would never accept such a term as "master photographer". That term is an outgrowth of the professional photographer associations (PPA comes to mind). They bestowed their members, the majority with less than mediocre vision, with all kinds of ribbons proclaiming them as "Master Photographers". Sorry to insult any of you PPA members, I was once a member also.

    Being a master in an art, which I consider photography to have an elevated place, has very little to do with mastery of technique, as suggested by the analogy of the medieval system of apprentice and master. It still works today in the trades; plumbers, pressmen, carpenters -- you name it, but not the arts.

    Take a look at some you may consider to be "a master photographer", and then look at their early work. You may find that they did their best and most creative work very early in their careers, and it was later that public acceptance and monetary rewards elevated them to "master photographers" in the minds of some. However, not necessarily in their own opinion or that of their peers. I knew a few of these "masters" and often, in their opinion, their best work was done before achieving the grand public acceptance.

  6. #26

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    Re: Master or journeyman

    Interesting observations, Merg.
    Wayne
    Wayne Lambert
    Colorado Springs, Colorado
    www.waynelambert.net

  7. #27
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Master or journeyman

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian C. Miller View Post
    Is Andreas Gursky a master photographer? Yes or no? According to the standards, the only measure is money. He is a master photographer because a print sold for $4.3 million dollars.
    Perhaps not but there was certainly a master salesman at work!


    Steve.

  8. #28
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    Re: Master or journeyman

    Quote Originally Posted by MDR View Post
    the first is to do an apprenticeship become a "Geselle" = journeyman
    And you get some great clothes and hats!


    Steve.

  9. #29

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    Re: Master or journeyman

    But in any case at some point the Ansels etc. of the work "came to the attention" of the world of photo critics etc. at large. Was there a specific photo or series of photos that did this? I'm not talking about their most "popular" works -- just the ones that showed they 1- knew the rules and 2- knew when to break them. There must have been such a transition period in their creative development - when, how, why did that happen? That's what I'm curious about. At some point they transcended mere technical accomplishment in the craft, and broke some new barriers and "came into their own" as artists. That's something interesting and worthy of study. (But it could be entirely true that there was no such time and they were geniuses since childhood)

  10. #30
    Jim Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Master or journeyman

    I worked for a publisher for several years where the term "master printer" was clearly defined. Anyone who completed 10,000 hours of work for the company was awarded a master printer pin. This included janitors and even one supervisor whose main qualification in publishing was a degree in agriculture. I don't like the idea of money determining anything more than a master of business, although at this time of year publishing income tax returns may be a better indication of success and honesty than mere hours on the job.

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