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Thread: Jonathan Sobel not happy with William Eggleston's latest marketing move.

  1. #21

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    Re: Jonathan Sobel not happy with William Eggleston's latest marketing move.

    Pictures of sad clowns, or kids with big droopy eyes are my kind of Art. IMHO those Hamms beer signs with the waves in the lake that look like they move really kick @$$ Velvet Elvis, not so cool (but I'm a tough critic!)
    I steal time at 1/125th of a second, so I don't consider my photography to be Fine Art as much as it is petty larceny.

  2. #22
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Jonathan Sobel not happy with William Eggleston's latest marketing move.

    Just redux one of those Hamm's signs twenty feet across and put it in the Miami Pop Art
    fair with a twenty million dollar price tag, or take a photograph of that black velvet Elvis
    rug and ask fifty grand for it - can't be any worse than a photo of a billboard. Winning is largely the art of the bluff, and not art of the eye, just as in poker.

  3. #23

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    Re: Jonathan Sobel not happy with William Eggleston's latest marketing move.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Just redux one of those Hamm's signs twenty feet across and put it in the Miami Pop Art
    fair with a twenty million dollar price tag, or take a photograph of that black velvet Elvis
    rug and ask fifty grand for it - can't be any worse than a photo of a billboard. Winning is largely the art of the bluff, and not art of the eye, just as in poker.
    I think there is an element of game theory involved in these kinds of payoffs, but I don't think poker is the best analogy for the game, which seems to have more in common with the category of games in which discovering the rules of the game is part of the game play. Poker would be more difficult if one didn't know if two Aces beats a straight flush, or the other way around, and even more so if your opponents did know.

  4. #24
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Jonathan Sobel not happy with William Eggleston's latest marketing move.

    The difference in this case is that you get to invent the rules of the game. But not much
    sheer statistical chance to it. You need 250K min for a booth space and a well recognized
    dealership. Need to know your potential clients. Everyone knows it's an esthetic con with winners and losers, but it can't be a business con. Have to have an established reputation for delivering the goods. Sorta a closed-loop highbrow thing for people willing to gamble big, but who are otherwise just excercising their right to conspicuous consumption. But it is a game. Once an artist loses collectable momentum, the house of cards falls. Not many are going to have recognized value in the long run. Fortunately, a lot of color photography will just plain fade. Going archival is not always a good thing.

  5. #25
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Jonathan Sobel not happy with William Eggleston's latest marketing move.

    Slightly different perspective on it - in his old age nearing death, Dali was signing stacks
    of unprinted paper before even being lithographed. It infuriated collectors because they
    thought it would make the value of their own collection fall. But the truth all along is that
    these mass-produced reproductions were virtually worthless anyway. You go into some
    Fisherman's Wharf tourist gallery, plop down a couple grand for a fancy Dali poster, which
    is probably worth less than the frame itself. The dealer paid about fifteen bucks for it. If
    you want to "invest" in Dali, you need hundreds of thousand of dollars to play with, or way more, and won't waste time on reproductions, signed or not.

  6. #26

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    Re: Jonathan Sobel not happy with William Eggleston's latest marketing move.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Slightly different perspective on it - in his old age nearing death, Dali was signing stacks
    of unprinted paper before even being lithographed.
    I did a limited edition book where I sent the author endsheets to sign. There were a small stack left over after production. A few years ago, he passed on, but I still have the extra sheets. Someday they might be wanted. I know of editions done for a deceased author where signatures were cut from cancelled checks and pasted into the books.

    This is one way, I suppose, where it is easier to deal with dead artists; the amount of work that has come from their own hands is fixed by time.

  7. #27
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Jonathan Sobel not happy with William Eggleston's latest marketing move.

    Hard to know what the truth was concerning Dali - but at the time the mere rumor (and it
    did move fast) of him signing blank sheets caused a panic. But it is known he signed his name to tens of thousands of pieces, many relatively worthless. In this case he was obviously a deservedly recognized painter; but the casual "collector" probably didn't even know the difference between a lithograph and mass-produced photolithograph. At one time
    the Wall St Journal ran an article pointing out naive collecting as one of the worst forms
    of investment there is - in that case they were specifically referring to Kincade, whose stuff has already collapsed in value. No mystery there.

  8. #28

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    Re: Jonathan Sobel not happy with William Eggleston's latest marketing move.

    Few things stinks worse than a dead Artist.
    I steal time at 1/125th of a second, so I don't consider my photography to be Fine Art as much as it is petty larceny.

  9. #29
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Jonathan Sobel not happy with William Eggleston's latest marketing move.

    I don't know about that, John. I can remember a few hundred times driving past that muddy feedlot across the road from Little Table Mtn, on the Madera Co side of the River.
    When I was young, a couple of the young cowboys who lived there would daily board the
    school bus, and the other kids would sure be pulling the windows open!

  10. #30
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    Re: Jonathan Sobel not happy with William Eggleston's latest marketing move.

    Good. I hope it finally all gets decided, one way or another – but it won't – and I don't give a fig which way it goes. A pox on all their houses. Forget it Jake, it's Art town.


    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    I don't know about that, John. I can remember a few hundred times driving past that muddy feedlot across the road from Little Table Mtn, on the Madera Co side of the River.
    When I was young, a couple of the young cowboys who lived there would daily board the
    school bus, and the other kids would sure be pulling the windows open!
    ...and I can remember climbing on the sedimentary/basalt cliffs under the cross on afternoons after school.
    Last edited by ROL; 10-Apr-2012 at 18:34.

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