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Thread: What 8x10 lenses to get?

  1. #11

    What 8x10 lenses to get?

    Mike,

    You left out some very important information that would have a big influence on what lenses make the most sense for you. First, what do you plan to shoot? Landcapes, portraits, architecture, studio still lifes. etc? The "best" lenses for one application may be totally different than the "best" lenses for another. What is your price range? There are some great deals out there right now on previous generation, but still modern lenses. These are lenses that were made within the last 25 -30 years that are multticoated and come in reliable modern (usually Copal) shutters. Prices for these lenses have dropped dramatically in the last few years, but it's pointless to recommend anything specific until we know what you will be shooting and how much you expect to spend.

    1) What lenses are best/should I avoid?

    Depends (see above)

    2) How much movement does an "average" (say 450mm) lens allow for (ie, is it worth the extra $/searching to find 11x14 lenses, and will there be much difference)?

    There's really no such thing as an "average" 450mm lens. Among current lenses, there are three 450mm models available - all are very different (but will have more than enough coverage for 8x10). They are the 450mm f9 Nikkor M which is a tessar type (4/3) that takes 67mm filters, is in a Copal No. 3 shutter, has a 440mm image circle and weighs 640g; 450mm f12.5 Fujinon C (4/4) 52mm filters, Copal No. 1 shutter, 486mm image circle, 270g; 450mm f8 Fujinon CM-W (6/6), 86mm filters, Copal No. 3, 520mm image circle, 1140g. If you include the more common 480m focal length, the number of options goes up considerably - and that' just lenses that are currently available new. Include recently discontinued and "classic" lenses, and the choices go up by an order of magnitude. In just the three current 450mm lenses, you see a huge variation in some parameters (including price). Which is best for you will depend on what you're shooting and your budget. In the 300mm and 360mm focal lengths, there are mny more options (both modern and classic).

    3) I've read that newer 8x10 and larger lenses are of lower quality than older lenses because of less demand for such lenses, and they remain "softer" than older lenses. True/false?

    I've read a lot of nonsense on the internet, but this one takes the cake. It is true that there are some very sharp "classic" lenses, and classic lenses may offer other advantages in some cases (more coverage, smaller size, lower cost), but to say that newer lenses are soft is ridiculous. Newer lenses benefit from better coatings and far better manufacturing techniques and quality control. Better coatings provided a couple of benefits. First, an increase in contrast (a reduction of non-image forming light - aka flare). This alone will make images appear sharper even if the resolution is the same. Second, it allows the lens designers more freedom in incorporating more air spaces in their designs that can result in a better corrected lens (which leads to better sharpness over a wider range of apertures). Most of the best selling modern lenses are based on designs (plasmat for standard lenses and biogon derivatives for wide angles) that weren't practical until coatings became commercially viable. Add in multicoatings and the designer has ever more freedom to pursue more complex, better corrected designs.

    4) Is it difficult to mount barrel lenses w/shutter (ie, worth the time, effort)?

    It's not difficult for a competent machinist. However, that machinist will want to be compensated for his time and skill - and every lens is unique, which requires a different set-up, which adds to the time involved and the cost of the work. This can add up in a hurry. And then you have the cost of the barrel lens and the new shutter to consider. With used shutter mounted lenses selling at very reasonable prices, it can be hard to justify the cost involved - unless you have some very unique barrel mounted lens that doesn't have a shutter-mounted alternative (or you yourself are a competent machinist).

    5) What is your preference in lens focal lengths (ie, your 2 favorite)?

    Without knowing what you're shooting, my preference may or may not be relevent. And even if we shot the same types of subjects, our personal vision and preferences may be totally different. For example, I'm a landscape shooter, but I'm not a big user of wide angle lenses. I prefer slightly wide to slightly long lenses for most of my work, and tend to use long lenses more than wide angles. This is the direct opposite to many other landscape shooters I know who shoot almost 100% with wide angles and don't own any lenses longer than "normal". As I have to carry them aound on my back, I tend to prefer lighter lenses. I also prefer lenses with smaller filter sizes as this save space in my pack and money in my wallet. For you, this may be totally irrelevent (or maybe not).

    I'll refrain from specific recommendaions until I know more about you intended subjects, your goals and your personal preferences.

    Kerry

  2. #12

    What 8x10 lenses to get?

    P.S. from the variety of responses, you can see why it's important that we know what you plan to shoot and how much you plan to spend. For example, many people are assuming you will be shooting black and white, and perhaps contact printing. Fact is, we don't know that. Personally, I shoot color and make both conventional prints as well as digital prints from scanned original color transparencies. So, my recommendations may be totally different from others. Whether or not any of these recommendations are valid depends on your needs. Until we know those needs, all you're going to get is recommendaions based on our (highly variable)needs.

    Kerry

  3. #13
    tim atherton's Avatar
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    What 8x10 lenses to get?

    "In my opinion, any lens that looks sharp enough. You are likely to be contact printing and should have no problem"

    I love this assumtption that comes up every time someone mentions 8x10

    Lots of us shoot colour and either ahve it printed by a lab or scanned and print digitally.

    Plenty of us scan B&W and also print digitally

    8x10 enlargers are fairly easy to have these days and are not necessarily as big as a house...

    the idea of using 8x10 and then limiting yourself to contact prints seems rather narrow
    You'd be amazed how small the demand is for pictures of trees... - Fred Astaire to Audrey Hepburn

    www.photo-muse.blogspot.com blog

  4. #14

    Join Date
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    What 8x10 lenses to get?

    For grneral shooting of scenics I have found that the 240rodenstock sironon even if not apo is extreemly sharp, and these are easily available and reasonable priced, I find that the 355 -360 range are very useful for portraiture, You will find that the portraits are now more waist up rather than head shots and you do not need to get in as close, Also the 480 apo rodagons are samll and extreemy sharp, they use a 67 mm filter, the 240 sironar uses an 86 filter adn the 355 g-claron uses a 67mm filter. with these three lenses you will be ready for just about anything. I would begin with a 360 or a 240, the 450-480 are more limiting because you will restrict the depth of filed and the bellow draw will be long. You can rent or borrow wider or longer lenses for special purposes. Any of the Multicoated lenses will be very sharp.the advantage of the multicoated lenses is that you can go to color easily,also using an x-synchabkle shutter will allow for fill flash. Fill flash can be any flash, I have used metz 45's for excelent portrait results. If you go to the barrel lenses then you will be restricted to b&w and natural light. Also lenses have a sweet sopt and it is usually from f22,32,45. smaller is not alwalys sharper. Each lense has its own circle of coverage and you have to look at the tables for the data. I like my 240 alot but I ran out of rise on achitecture so I finally saved my money and got the 210xl Schneider. Now the camera limits out before the lense does. but it did not help with scenics much in terms of rise. Be SURE the shutter is accurate.Try it at one and one half second times for a feel then test it and mark it so you will know tre real shutter times.

  5. #15

    What 8x10 lenses to get?

    Thank you all for your input, it is truely invaluable. To clarify what I am doing and/or going to be doing:
    I currently shoot a hodgepoge of different things, both format, subject and purpose wise. I have 35mm, digital, and MF (6x7) outfits, and shoot commercial, event and fine art photography. I enjoy the fine art the best (primarily hand printed B&W from my 6x7) and am wanting move more in that direction, as I find it by far the most fulfilling, and find the control of an 8x10 to be particularly appealing. I will be selling to galleries (no, not "wow, if only I had an 8x10 I could....." but already selling to galleries, looking to make that an area to explore), so we're ultimately talking enlarged prints here, not contact prints. My work focuses primarily around still lifes of one sort or another, and portraiture. Although I'd like to attempt doing some landscapes at some point, they are not what I going to be shooting for the most part.

    As far as cost/weight/etc. is concerned, I have been toting around a 35mm outfit around for the last 7 years (ie, 2 pro bodies, 8 lenses, tripod, 4 flashes = 60+ lbs and $10k), and the thought of buying one or two lenses for most of my work for a couple thousand rather than buying a single lens for specialized purposes (and sets me back $2k) is rather appealing. Before anyone jumps in here with the whole "magic-bullet" thing, I am not looking for one. My work in 35mm and 6x7 is good in it's own right, but I enjoy working in the "traditional" darkroom, and a large negative would be conducive to that. In essence what I am saying is that the cost/weight/etc. are only secondary concerns, I am primarily interested in simplicity, ease of use, versatility and quality (yes, quality last, because I'd like to believe that for the most part it's technique rather than gear that comes into play here, and it doesn't sound like from what everyone has posted that there are any "dogs" as far as lenses go).

    So thank all of you for all your great answers (no, really, all very helpful), and I have one last question: better to buy or build an 8x10 enlarger?

    Also, I feel I must add, although I'm new to this group, I've read through (literally) hundreds of postings here and have not seen a single flame. Coming from what I've seen on other groups, (who shall go unnamed) I was pleasantly supprised to find both helpful and courtious answers to even silly questions such as mine. For those who are unfamiliar with the "ettiquette" of other groups, I have seen many times people get all bent out of shape on the whole "which is the best lens/camera/format/etc." question, and become insulting quite quickly. Thank you for your infinate patience and all your helpful advice.

  6. #16

    What 8x10 lenses to get?

    Speaking to the related question of whether to build or buy and 8x10 enlarger as one who has built I’d say buy. It is a lot of work to get things right. It is cheaper, lots, but it will take time and patience.

    Why not take advantage of the price break that comes as a result of the scarcity of 8x10 commercial shooting? You can find some great prices now and then on the net but it is a matter or luck/timing and questions of weight and space. Patience pays. Beware incomplete systems though. Parts are as hen’s teeth. Go and see the piece and make sure you can align it all and that it fits your darkroom.

    There is one outfit I know of that sells the big stuff. You are gong to be paying him for his work as a gleaner but that is only fair, the company: www.glenview.com. I bought a Kodak f8 10” on his recommendation and I must say it does a very good job. Good luck in this big adventure. Oh by the way, front and rear mounting barrel lenses to a serviced #5 is a very good way to get good lenses for cheap and…you only have one shutter’s idiosyncrasies to deal with

  7. #17

    What 8x10 lenses to get?

    I am getting a 8x10 this week myself, a ShenHao HZX810-IIAT. I have a 158mm Cooke WA ser.VIIB f/6,5, a 240mm Zeiss Goertz Dagor f/6,8 and plan to get a 450mm Fuji-c f/12,5. I think they will make a very nice combination. Contact printing AZO, photoengraving and other alternative processes

  8. #18

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    What 8x10 lenses to get?

    You've gotten so much good info here all I'll do is add to the fray with my 2 fave's. OK 3. As I've used the 810 over time these have changed but these 3 allow good moves on 810. 270 G-Claron, 14" Kern Gold Dot Dagor, 16 1/2" Repro Claron. These 3 even though close together in relative jump from size to size do 80+% of my 810 pics. Actually you could drop the 14" out of there but it's just so superb..........and finally if you find a 210mm f6.8 Kyvytar you are a lucky man. A clean late coated 8 1/4" Dagor is just as good.

  9. #19

    What 8x10 lenses to get?

    My three picks for 8x10 are: 270 G-Claron, 355-G Claron, 600 Fujinon C.

  10. #20

    What 8x10 lenses to get?

    Welcome to the 8X10 world. I have been shooting 8X10 for 20 years and I still am quite happy with my grandfather's 12" triple convertible Protar. However I don't shoot color. When I use the 4X5 back I use a 210-W Nikor with joy. In the past I have used wide field Ektars with success. As long as I don't shoot with the sun or other strong light source in the frame, I have never really come across a sub-standard classic or new lens.

    I echo everyone's recommendation about the G-Claron, I have a 150 and it's a dandy for close-up work. Which leads me to ask the others who use G-Clarons for general photography, I always thought the G-Clarons were corrected for 1:1 work and not so great at infinity. Please set me straight on this matter.

    Question: Does anyone know how to cure the Schneider SA internal, infernal, black flakes?

    Questions: Why are the Lanthars so expensive today?

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