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Thread: Filters for Black White

  1. #1
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Filters for Black White

    I am in the middle of a project where I am photographing objects then solarizing the film.

    I want to get meat * red* to pop, I am using FP4 rated normal and using a soft solaral type of dev.

    What filter would you use to get the most detail , or tonality out of red meat or red objects for that matter?
    I am using an old Century Camera with no shutter so I could put a large lee filter there which would probably be the obvious place.

    Right now with the combo I have the red meat blocks up and in the print is dead black.. which is not such a bad thing but without bones or other lighter tone material in the shot the red just falls short .

    the image provided has the look I am after but as you can see the bone is creating the detail, other images, like a pile of hamburger meat , just ends up being a lump of black.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails meat on bone.jpg  

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    Re: Filters for Black White

    I would suggest experimenting with a light red filter to lighten the meat a bit. If you want the meat even lighter use a darker red filter, texture detail should still be apparent I would think.

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    Re: Filters for Black White

    Filters will only change the tonal values of one colout to another. Raking light will maximize texture contrast.
    Bill
    "There are a great many things I am in doubt about at the moment, and I should consider myself favoured if you would kindly enlighten me. Signed, Doubtful, off to Canada." (BJP 1914).

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    Re: Filters for Black White

    True solarization happens as the film is exposed and not in development. See Ansel's "Black Sun", or some of Man Ray's work for true solarizatiion. You will find the effect the near opposite of what you are accomplishing.

  5. #5
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Filters for Black White

    Jim

    It may not be apparent in this image but there is a black makie line due to the exposure during development... I call this solarization but I do know that the makie line I get is exactly like some of Man Ray's works see Photographs by Man Ray 105 works 1920 - 1934 Dover books... the cover and many pages are identical to the effect I am getting with the film still lifes.. When I do print solarization I get a white mackie line which is not apparent with most of his work..
    I have been doing this for over 10 years now and in the first few years I did not look at Man Rays work or Ed Buffaloe work for that matter so as not to be influenced.

    I got all my methods from Mr Jolly's paper on solarization, and I can be swayed to call them the Sabbatier effect but since he calls the Solarizations I have kept the name.

    Bob

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Noel View Post
    True solarization happens as the film is exposed and not in development. See Ansel's "Black Sun", or some of Man Ray's work for true solarizatiion. You will find the effect the near opposite of what you are accomplishing.

  6. #6
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Filters for Black White

    I will look into the Lee Filter selection... any hints on which filter .
    Quote Originally Posted by David Brunell View Post
    I would suggest experimenting with a light red filter to lighten the meat a bit. If you want the meat even lighter use a darker red filter, texture detail should still be apparent I would think.

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    Re: Filters for Black White

    What are the other colors in the image? As cowanw (where do they come up with these names?) said, filters are used to separate tones in b&w photography, usually not to simply make a single tone darker or lighter (which is generally better done by correct exposure and development). E.g. if you photographed a red apple and nothing else there would be no point in using a red filter, all that would do is make the apple lighter, something better accomplished by taking a meter reading of the apple and increasing exposure by a stop or two. But if the apple was surrounded by green leaves you'd probably use a red filter to lighten the apple without affecting the leaves and thereby create separation between the leaves and the apple (or you could also use a green filter to lighten the leaves without affecting the apple).

    So whether a filter will do anything for you in your situation depends on what else besides the meat is in the image, what color(s) those things are, and what effect if any a filter will have on them and on the apple.
    Brian Ellis
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  8. #8
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Filters for Black White

    Very good point Brian
    It may just be the way the film is recording red and I need to increase the exposure .

    The background is common for all images but in this case the only items I am having problems with is the red meat.
    As you well point out if I had other colours in the scene it is one decision on how to separate the different colours.. this case there is no other colour than the red meat and bones if they are present which record as white detail.
    For example I have one image of hamburger meat , no bones and it just looks like a lump of black mass with no detail.

    If I was correcting this in photoshop I would go into the colour range and add cyan which would have the effect of creating detail... so my first thought before I posted this question , was that I would require a cyan filter.
    Yellow peppers really respond to my set up... anything red records poorly.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ellis View Post
    What are the other colors in the image? As cowanw (where do they come up with these names?) said, filters are used to separate tones in b&w photography, usually not to simply make a single tone darker or lighter (which is generally better done by correct exposure and development). E.g. if you photographed a red apple and nothing else there would be no point in using a red filter, all that would do is make the apple lighter, something better accomplished by taking a meter reading of the apple and increasing exposure by a stop or two. But if the apple was surrounded by green leaves you'd probably use a red filter to lighten the apple without affecting the leaves and thereby create separation between the leaves and the apple (or you could also use a green filter to lighten the leaves without affecting the apple).

    So whether a filter will do anything for you in your situation depends on what else besides the meat is in the image, what color(s) those things are, and what effect if any a filter will have on them and on the apple.

  9. #9
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Filters for Black White

    you need the "carnievore" filter...........
    Thanks,
    Kirk

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  10. #10
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Filters for Black White

    good one

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