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Thread: Inkjet better than wet prints yet?

  1. #231

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    Re: Inkjet better than wet prints yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by tgtaylor View Post
    Unless the negative is one that "prints itself," it's the same with silver prints: Instead of monitoring the expsure you have to, for example, dodge or burn each one and that requires that you pay attention to each individual print. You can't just walk away from them as you can with the computer. If you read the Tyler Boley link you will see that silver printing is still unequaled by digital. Yeah, the Cone ink is pitched but they got skin in the game.

    Thomas

    And if you read Brian's posts (at least twice now), you are confirming his point that it takes more time to do the silver print. And to him that is boring drudge work that adds no artistic value (the artistic value was in achieving the initial print that id derived from determining the desired formula of processing, dodging, and burning).

    There is nothing inherently valuable or honorable in taking more labor to create the same result (or a result with more unintentional variations) - people can make cogent arguments either way. You may find that extra labor enjoyable, others may not. You may find that extra labor adds more value to the final product, others may not.

    The current high quality of various processes, fortunately, allows other factors to be the more/most important when determining value of a print. Such as artistic vision, and artistic execution.

  2. #232

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    Re: Inkjet better than wet prints yet?

    I whole-heartedly agree with the "original image and processing technique is most important vs. labor-intensive" argument as it pertains to photography. Some folks simply value hands-on treatment of the final image (as much as can be attributed to photographic processes) but that's only partially relevant. This makes "relatively" little sense in the photographic medium. After all... one cannot compare printing multiple wet-process images with making several duplicate paintings or sculptures. You just can't directly compare "art", which is a fully "hands-on" process, with photography, which is a partially "mechanical" process.

    Can photography be art? Of course it can be. But it's more mechanical than "traditional" art forms are. We can never get away from that. So what's the big deal about digital prints other than the "artist" may never have "touched" the final print? Even AA didn't "touch" all his final prints. Would I pay more for a print that was "hand-signed" by the photographer? Yes. Would I pay more if the print was documented as "hand-printed" by the artist? You bet. Would I buy an unsigned print that was never touched by the "artist"? Absolutely... at a far-discounted price. Is it worth it for the artist to hand-print and hand-sign everything he/she sells? HIGHLY unlikely.

  3. #233
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
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    Re: Inkjet better than wet prints yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Miller View Post
    There is nothing inherently valuable or honorable in taking more labor to create the same result (or a result with more unintentional variations) - people can make cogent arguments either way. You may find that extra labor enjoyable, others may not. You may find that extra labor adds more value to the final product, others may not.
    It took me almost ten years to figure that out.

  4. #234

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    Re: Inkjet better than wet prints yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by tgtaylor View Post
    ...with silver prints...you have to...dodge or burn each one...
    Not necessarily. Read Alan Ross' articles on dye dodging. Not quite "press the button," but much less attention than hand dodging/burning every print in a "production environment."

  5. #235
    tgtaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Inkjet better than wet prints yet?

    An opinion by Jon Cone based upon the article of the same name published in the Jan/Feb 2012 issue of View Camera Magazine.

    In the OEM world, black & white still represents a compromise. The online and tradeshow evangelists for these three companies routinely espouse their black & white superiority over the other. But, none of these systems has yet reached the standard of a finely crafted darkroom silver fiber print. Yet, all around the world and for well more than a decade, many photographers have routinely been printing with customized and specialized black & white inkjet solutions that raise the bar significantly over the OEMs.


    Thomas
    No art passes our conscience in the way that film does, and goes directly to our feelings, deep down into the dark rooms of our souls.
    Ingmar Bergman

  6. #236

    Re: Inkjet better than wet prints yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by tgtaylor View Post
    Unless the negative is one that "prints itself," it's the same with silver prints: Instead of monitoring the expsure you have to, for example, dodge or burn each one and that requires that you pay attention to each individual print. You can't just walk away from them as you can with the computer. If you read the Tyler Boley link you will see that silver printing is still unequaled by digital. Yeah, the Cone ink is pitched but they got skin in the game.

    Thomas
    well Thomas, I'm Tyler, there are some presumptive and simply incorrect statements here, but perhaps the last in particular requires your explanation.
    Thanks,
    Tyler

  7. #237

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    The only common theme I see in this thread is that the "best" method happens to be what the particular poster happens to use themselves. Seems like a bit of insecurity on both teams - human nature I guess? Just my observations.
    Regards
    Erik

  8. #238

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    Re: Inkjet better than wet prints yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by tgtaylor View Post
    An opinion by Jon Cone based upon the article of the same name published in the Jan/Feb 2012 issue of View Camera Magazine.

    In the OEM world, black & white still represents a compromise. The online and tradeshow evangelists for these three companies routinely espouse their black & white superiority over the other. But, none of these systems has yet reached the standard of a finely crafted darkroom silver fiber print. Yet, all around the world and for well more than a decade, many photographers have routinely been printing with customized and specialized black & white inkjet solutions that raise the bar significantly over the OEMs.


    Thomas
    This is how technology evolves. Innovators improve on existing technology in a leapfrog progression until an insurmountable barrier is reached. Sometimes that progression is geometric, other times linear, and at various rates. Silver printing progresses linearly, and has been a mature technology for many decades, so the progress has slowed to a crawl, where every increment is expensive and far between. Ink printing progresses geometrically, and is still a nascent technology, so it's closing the gap with the old technology very rapidly, and we're at a point now where we can argue if the gap still exists, and which technology is most advanced. In other words, the writing is on the wall, whether or not you can read it.

  9. #239
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Inkjet better than wet prints yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Larsen View Post
    The only common theme I see in this thread is that the "best" method happens to be what the particular poster happens to use themselves. Seems like a bit of insecurity on both teams - human nature I guess? Just my observations.
    Regards
    Erik
    I don't think you read very carefully, but it is a very long thread. Here was an earlier post of mine:

    I have been showing silver prints along side inkjet since 2005 in museum and gallery shows with a great deal of success. At this point I am quite satisfied with both. I don't try to make an inkjet print look like a silver print, but try and make it rich and expressive on its own. I have found that some images print better one way than the other. Generally I try everything shot on film in silver first. If it works there that is where I stop. If not I will have a drum scan done and work on it in ink. Digital capture of course I work up in ink first.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    "When did photography become a desk job?" Kirk Gittings 2009

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  10. #240
    tgtaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Inkjet better than wet prints yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Boley View Post
    well Thomas, I'm Tyler, there are some presumptive and simply incorrect statements here, but perhaps the last in particular requires your explanation.
    Thanks,
    Tyler
    From your(?) wesbsite:

    http://theagnosticprint.org/the-stat...n-black-white/

    Thomas
    No art passes our conscience in the way that film does, and goes directly to our feelings, deep down into the dark rooms of our souls.
    Ingmar Bergman

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