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Thread: Xtol, CHS and a Jobo expert what could possibly go wrong

  1. #11

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    Re: Xtol, CHS and a Jobo expert what could possibly go wrong

    If I were you, I'd go with one shot ID-11 in the expert tank - you already had ID-11 working, so you only need to work out the adjustment to your times for one-shot and rotation. A change in developer will only force you to start from scratch, for little, if any, benefit. XTOL is not going to be any better or worse than ID-11 (or other mainstream developers) with old style thin layer film like CHS.

  2. #12

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    Re: Xtol, CHS and a Jobo expert what could possibly go wrong

    It has always been my experience that a five minute pre-wet in the Jobo has the effect of equalizing the development time to that used for standard inversion processing.

  3. #13
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    Re: Xtol, CHS and a Jobo expert what could possibly go wrong

    For a group that is normally very helpful, this thread is surprisingly filled with unhelpful comments. I don't have an explanation for it, but I do apologize to the OP for the group's weird behavior.

    While I don't have direct experience with the OPs film of choice Adox CHS, I do have experience with XTOL at 1:3, using an Expert 3010 tank on a CPP-2, with both Tri-X and TMY-2.

    To address the question about dilutions: XTOL has a long and interesting history when it comes to dilution. Kodak originally listed options for XTOL from stock to 1:3. But "early XTOL failure" caused them to reduce this to just stock and 1:1. When the cause of "early XTOL failure" was found (dissolved iron in the mix water), Kodak for some reason decided to stick with the 1:1 limit. I don't know why. See Kodak Tech. Pub J109 for the current recommendations from Kodak, including their times for rotary processing of sheet films.

    While all that was going on, I was mixing XTOL with steam distilled water (no iron, so no problem), and using it one-shot at 1:3 in my 3010 tank on a CPP-2, first with Tri-X, then with TMY-2 (excellent combination, TMY-2 and XTOL). Never had a failure, and my stock solution lasted for longer than 12 months in full wine bottles with Vacu Vin stoppers.

    As to how continuous agitation effects development times: With continuous agitation, development time varies with the square root of dilution. So if your time at 1:1 is 5 minutes, doubling dilution to 1:3 would give you 5*sqrt(2) = 7 minutes.

    The only warning I give is to make sure you have enough developer stock in your mix to avoid developer exhaustion. With 10 sheets of 5x4 TMY-2 that comes out to 250ml IIRC, which I dilute to 1:3 before using -> makes 1 liter. I have no idea how much stock you'd need for your film of choice, but this is perhaps a good place to start.

    I haven't found much difference in the final printed image between stock XTOL and 1:3. Normal enlargements just aren't big enough to show what differences there are (11x enlargement lets me make a 100 x 125 cm print with a tiny bit of room for cropping, and I've only made a few photographs I thought worthy of such a huge print). Basically, dilution gives you just a tiny bit better micro-contrast, and just a tiny bit bigger but sharper grain. I don't dilute XTOL for what it changes in the print, I do it for the economy and for the increase in processing time that makes development a little more controllable for me.

    As to the question of presoak or not: I exchanged some emails with Dick Dickerson and Silvia Zawadzki, the Kodak researchers who are most closely associated with the development of XTOL. They did most of their development work in rotary tanks, and they did not recommend a presoak with XTOL. See this thread on XTOL and presoaks for more.

    How to proceed: If you can't find anyone with previous experience with Adox CHS, XTOL (in whatever dilution) and the expert drums, you'll have to do the work yourself. Per the Zone System (or any number of its offshoots) you'll have to first find your personal exposure index (EI), then your personal normal development time. But a few days of testing initially can save you buckets of time (and money) in the long run, so go ahead and do it.

    My experience with both Tri-X and TMY-2 in XTOL tell me that you'll find your EI very near the ISO of the film (I'm actually a third of a stop faster). My experience with development times is however meaningless for you since I don't use Adox CHS.

    Bruce Watson

  4. #14
    Wayne venchka's Avatar
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    Re: Xtol, CHS and a Jobo expert what could possibly go wrong

    I get good results, for my skill level and taste, with Xtol 1:3, an expert tank and a starting time in the 8 to 10 minute range for a variety of films. Efke, Foma, Ilford, Kodak. Speeds from 25 to 400.

    Wayne
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  5. #15

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    Re: Xtol, CHS and a Jobo expert what could possibly go wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by aluncrockford View Post
    Having just discovered my deep tank of ID11 has been contaminated yet again I have decided to go down the road of one shot xtol in a Jobo expert for my 10x8 Adox CHS but kodak advise 1-1 dilution and the times on the massive dev chart only give times for 1-2 with out a mention of continuous agitation , has any one experience of this dev, film, process combo and if so what are the times and dilution that work best

    thanks


    alun
    Alun, that's some beautiful stuff on your website. Knock-out.

  6. #16

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    Re: Xtol, CHS and a Jobo expert what could possibly go wrong

    I'm with Bruce on this... Xtol is wonderful. I use it for 4x5 and 8x10, most favorite film is Ilford Delta. I use Xtol 1:1 in a Jobo, with times ranging from 4 to 7 1/2 minutes, at 72F. I did a lot of tests (on both TMax'es, Delta and Efke) and I didn't see anything that could compete with it for tight, sharp grain, which is what I was looking for. I always use the same amount, about 1250 ml's, regardless of how much film is in the tank.

    My results are mine, and not someone else's. But, suffice it to say, at least - I don't think there's anything wrong with Xtol at all.

    Lenny
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  7. #17
    Wayne venchka's Avatar
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    Re: Xtol, CHS and a Jobo expert what could possibly go wrong

    I use Xtol 1:3 so that my times are comfortably long during Texas summers which tend to last 8-10 months.

    Wayne
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  8. #18

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    Re: Xtol, CHS and a Jobo expert what could possibly go wrong

    Wayne trade you for some Alberta.... still snowing & I'm dreaming of Austin or San Antonio

  9. #19
    Wayne venchka's Avatar
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    Re: Xtol, CHS and a Jobo expert what could possibly go wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Y View Post
    Wayne trade you for some Alberta.... still snowing & I'm dreaming of Austin or San Antonio
    Would that I could trade. On the other hand, I'm dreaming of Wimberly, Fredericksburg & Big Bend. They seem as distant as Alberta. I'll get back north one of these years.

    Wayne
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  10. #20

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    Re: Xtol, CHS and a Jobo expert what could possibly go wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny Eiger View Post
    ...Xtol is wonderful. I use it for 4x5 and 8x10, most favorite film is Ilford Delta. I use Xtol 1:1 in a Jobo, with times ranging from 4 to 7 1/2 minutes, at 72F.
    Lenny, would you be so kind as to share whether you presoak or not and what EIs/CIs result from those times at 72 degrees with Delta 100? Thanks very much in advance.

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