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Thread: lenses

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    19

    lenses

    ok, another Q.

    ever one to own the latest, greatest, top-of-the-line-most-celebrated STUFF, i need some help (one way or another). having worked in a pro lab & having met some very competent people thru various avenues. & having always been a stickler for perfection, whatever form that perfection takes in my work, & doing things according to the vision i have of that particular body. & being verbose... i have learned that much of the photo community is preaching to the choir. meaning, photography has a definite scientific base, but the naked eye couldn't care less about that. so... i will be shooting landscapes & want the utmost of clarity/resolution/acutance/etc. present in these images. but will my naked eye or any patrons naked eyes be able to TRULY discern whether i used a modern, multi-coated, top-of-the-line "ooooooh" lens as opposed to older or less celebrated (w/in that choir of the photographic "elite", so to speak) glass ? i know that in scientific terms there are differences. but come on ! honestly, can anyones naked eye tell just by looking @ a photo the type of film ? camera ? lens ? processing ? etc. ? that was used ? all else being precisely identical, will there be a greatly discernible difference between the same scene shot w/ a new top-of-the-line lens as opposed to an older but still quality lens ? photography has always been my passion ever since i was a teen & i continue to practice it @ various levels throughout my life. but always i am concerned w/ my images being personally satisfying to the utmost degree. which does not always have to do w/ what some densitometer tells me about it. & it used to be exclusively b&w, which is quite different from my new, color world.

    i told you i was verbose.

  2. #2

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    Sep 2003
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    lenses

    My 8x10 lenses represent distinct graduations in sharpness, contrast and bokeh, and I can easily discerne which lens made which image. None of my lenses represent the apex of optical science, so I have no experience with that level of lens. If you have an opportunity to make the comparison yourself, you'll have your answer, but I don't think you'll find it here. Good luck.

  3. #3

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    Dec 2001
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    lenses

    jason,

    You're right of course. I am the Warden for a colony of criminal lenses, sentenced to live out their days where they no longer pose a danger to the well being of the photographic community. Killer Kodak, Two Gun Goerz, Crazy Cooke, and Wild Man Wollensak are my concern these days. PrettyBoy Boyer, Mad Dog Dallmeyer, and Legs Ilex...as they say: "...bad lens bad lens, watch ya gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you..." You're invited to send all those older single coated felon Fujis, rotten to the core Rodenstocks and sociopath Schneiders up the (San Joaquin)River----We'll leave the light on!;-)
    "I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority"---EB White

  4. #4

    lenses

    Jason,

    You got the money? Buy it. You’ll like it. Will you see the difference? Can you taste the difference between wines? The answer to both questions is: it depends (mostly on you).

    Most lenses are quite good enough if you…keep vibration/movement to a minimum, check your alignments-all of them, use big film, enlarge at a maximum 3x, buy fresh materials.

    If you need your money for other things then search the web for years and sort the hype from reality of image making lenses. I have made some blow-your-hair-back cool images (20x24) with $500.00 worth of equipment, including camera, enlarger, lenses and materials! It is 80% work/knowledge, 10% equipment and 10% luck. It has taken me 20 years AFTER getting my art/photography degree to figure out what really sings (to me) and I still have much to learn. Lenses are a fascination unto themselves, don't loose sight of the goal, making good images is about integrating knowledge and technique. Best to you in your studies.

  5. #5
    Robert A. Zeichner's Avatar
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    Feb 1999
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    lenses

    Most of the secrets of good lens making were uncovered before the turn of the century, the last century! While many advances have been made in the manufacturing process, coating techniques, computer aided design and testing, etc., the same demons that plagued the old school are still ever present. If there were such a thing as a perfect lens, we probably would find it unfit for pictorial imaging. It's purely a question of making the correct compromises for the application. I'm sure that in a laboratory environment, tests could be conducted that would conclusively prove one lens to be sharper than another or have better color correction or whatever parameter you were interested in comparing. The reality is that if you select any good quality lens, most of what will be right or wrong with your results will rest in how well you do your job as a photographer and a technician. Did you focus accurately? Did you establish the best subject plane? Did you select the optimum aperture? Did you use the correct filter and compensate accordingly? Did you shade the lens? Did you aim the camera at something worth capturing on film? You could no doubt add to the list. The point I'm trying to make is that when I do everything correctly, my 50 year old 203mm f7.7 Ektar with it's single coating, will give me very satisfying results. When I rush and make careless mistakes, my 110mm Super Symmar XL will give me very unsatisfying results. The only other thing I would add is that before making any evaluations on film, I would be ever so diligent about testing the ground glass alignment of my camera. Many lenses have been traded in based on soft negatives that were all the time due to ground glass/film plane misalignment!

  6. #6

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    Dec 2003
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    69

    lenses

    I once knew a guy who swore that he could identify images taken with Leica cameras, because the Leitz lenses had a distinct quality about them (contrast, tonality, whatever). I knew another guy who said similar comments about Hasselblad's Zeiss lenses.
    Now, I know that these are top-shelf lenses, but I personally have never been able to distinguish "their" photos from others; or maybe it is simply that some bright fellows who have shown me their work knew enough about the total process to impress me with work that I would consider "equal" to the Leitz/Zeiss phenoms, yet taken with so-called inferior glass.
    The moral of the story (for me)-- learn YOUR gear, not the gear you wish you had the $$$ to blow on, and you'll never exceed its capabilities... well, OK, maybe if you shoot with a Holga.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Dec 1999
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    Forest Grove, Ore.
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    lenses

    While I've never compared the results side-by-side, I suspect there's a perceptible difference between lenses of the 70's-80's (whether multi or single coated) and the more recent "Apo-" lenses. The newer lenses probably have an edge on contrast and sharpness.

    As far as coating on the Symmar-S lenses, I was told by a Schneider LF Technician that one wouldn't be able to tell the difference, except under certain circumstances. Their multi-coating filters IR and UV light, so one could possibly tell the difference looking at prints side-by-side in IR or UV prone situations.

    For 2 1/4 work, I have an S2A Bronica, a camera made in the early 70's. I like the results that I obtain with this camera. The lenses are fast and reasonably priced. I would prefer a more current Bronica, but I'm doing just fine with what I have. I've shown my images to others, and the response is that they look plenty sharp to them. While Bronica provided Nikon optics with this camera, I like the results that I obtain with the non-Nikon optics that I have for this camera. I once saw an image at an art show who's color and sharpness blew me away. It turned out they use an S2A.

    In fact, most of the great images that exist were made with lenses that aren't any older than my S2A.

    At the same time, I do very little professional work. I need only please myself. However, if I were doing more professional work, I would probably feel a responsibility to update some of my equipment.

  8. #8

    lenses

    Lens designers have known how to make -sharp- lenses for quite some time. Multicoatings, special glass, and aspherical designs are theoretically better but the results may be insignifigant or subject to taste. The major difference between the newer lenses and older is coverage (ie schneider XL).

    However, whenever you are buying an older lens, take consideration because any damage or misuse could affect the end result. Also budget for a CLA because the shutters are likely to be off.

  9. #9
    Robert A. Zeichner's Avatar
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    lenses

    Several posts make reference to experts being able to tell what lens was used to make this or that photograph. This is less mysterious than is might seem at first. There is an attribute of lenses that determines their performance when visualizing out of focus objects and specular highlights. The Japanese have a word for it.... Bokeh. In fact, they have an entire lexicon of descriptive words that define what kind of Bokeh a particular lens has. There are a number of classic lenses that have become hallmarks of good Bokeh, the Leitz 35mm f2 Summicron among them. If the kind of work you were to show one of these experts contained areas that were out of focus, there is a good chance they could identify the lens used by examining the Bokeh. If you would like to read more about this, there was an article (actually three) in Photo Techniques a few years back that had examples, tests and a run down of the more popular types of Bokeh. Unless you plan to do a lot of selective focus type work where this characteristic would display itself, I'm not certain you would have as easy a time telling what lens was used to make what photograph, assuming they were all comparitively good to start with.

  10. #10

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    Jun 2002
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    9,487

    lenses

    At middle apertures most brand name lenses are going to be sharp enough - the difference between lenses will have more to do with edge contrast, bokeh (shape of the aperture), and overall contrast (freedom from flare). You will see better results from a Leica Summilux 35mm f/1.4 used wide open compared to a pedestrian 35mm lens, but by f/5.6 I doubt you could tell them apart. Edward Weston used a cheap $10 lens, Penn and Avedon used 1950s vintage Rolleis, Ansel used all sorts of uncoated glass - all of their photos are plenty sharp enough. With digital processes, contrast is easily controlled and the open shadows of uncoated lenses may actually benefit your photos...

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